True that people could go off-grid even with the smallest "cycling" $3500 
solution from Tesla.
For my home I use less than about 5kWh per day, the only reason it sometimes 
spikes to 20+
is when I need to do a full recharge of my EV. So a 10kWh unit would be plenty 
for daily use,
only I am not planning to go off-grid, so I can actually store surplus sun 
energy when I have
my panels installed and draw from that "bank" when I charge my EV.

For people on ToU, the unit can make sense even without solar, by simply 
load-shifting from
expensive hours to cheap (nighttime) tariff, even selling back and grid 
stabilizing could be
reasons that you *receive* money (not just a grant) from the utility on a 
monthly basis for
having a utility-interactive home storage. That will depend on the utility and 
location and
design of the total solution - I am getting the impression that the Tesla 
solution is only
a battery backup and BMS, so I would need to read up on whether it expects 
solar input and
needs to feed into the usual inverter that is used for a solar system or what 
else is required
to operate this home battery.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626          Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130          private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com


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-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 9:58 AM
To: [email protected]; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla plugs into new market with home battery system

On May 1, 2015, at 9:34 AM, via EV <[email protected]> wrote:

> While Lithium batteries make a lot of sense for vehicles where energy density 
> to weight is a big deal, I'm not sure of the advantage for stationary 
> installations.  Cost for Lithium is still a big issue.  An ~40kWh pack of 
> deep cycle, lead acid batteries that provide battery backup for my house 
> costs ~$5k.

Yes, but how long will those lead cells last? Indications are that, especially 
when gently used in climate-controlled settings, lithium batteries have the 
potential to have an usable service life similar to that of a mortgage, but 
lead acid batteries are notorious for going tits-up after just a few years. If 
you get five years from $5,000 of lead acid but fifteen years from $14,000 of 
lithium, the lithium is the better investment.

Especially if coupled with a generator or (PH)EV that can serve as a backup for 
extended periods of low input and high demand, and depending on the size of the 
PV array, a surprising number of people could drop off the grid with 20 kWh of 
batteries and many could with 30 kWh. Most should be able to with 40 kWh with 
many not needing the genset at that point.

If you're paying on the order of $15 - $20 / month for grid connection fees, it 
doesn't make sense to spend $10,000 or so on a battery to drop off the grid. 
But many utilities are trying to structure their rates such that, even if 
you're at or over 100% net generating capacity, you'll still cut them a check 
for $50 - $100 / month...and suddenly, hey-presto, that $10,000 to drop off the 
grid makes the same kind of financial sense that the initial solar investment 
did.

Things are about to happen fast. Barring apocalyptic scenarios of whatever 
variety, most of us will live to see the day when a grid connection is as 
anachronistic as a landline telephone is today.

b&
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