Sums it up nicely with incorrect information? - Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Aug 23, 2021, at 5:02 PM, Alan Arrison via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > Enough with the hydrogen, Peter sums it up nicely. > >> On 8/23/2021 7:27 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: >> I thought it was obvious I was comparing BEV vs FCEV. Apparently not. >> >>> Higher cost to build? Well, yeah. But don’t BEVs cost more to build, >> An FCEV is an EV with a fuel cell, so most of the extra BEV costs are still >> there (still needs an electric motor/controller/batteries/etc) >> You say a little by using a smaller battery pack but then spend a LOT more >> of the fuel cell, tank(s), etc. >> >>> Higher cost to operate. For the consumer? Really? >> Compared to an BEV? Yes, absolutely, much higher. It gets even worse if >> you use green H2 since it requires about 3-4x as much electricity per mile >> to make the H2 vs charging an EV. >> >>> Lower efficiency. Lower efficiency of what, and to whom? >> Miles per kWh. To EVERYONE. >> Modern LiIon batteries are about 90% efficient at storing energy, chargers >> are also around 90%, equaling roughly 80% efficient at stroing electricity >> (and that can be improved) >> Modern electrolyzers are around 80-85% efficient and fuel cells are around >> 60%, which means a combined efficiency of ~50%, and that does NOT count any >> energy used to compress the H2, which front what I've read brings the total >> storage efficiency down to around 25-30%...at best. You'll also have >> additional losses charging/discharging the batteries on the FCEV. >> >>> No existing infrastructure. Again, this all depends. If you have access to >>> a station and 5 minutes >>> to fill every 300 miles or so, that’s plenty . >> Currently there are less than 40 public H2 stations around LA. There are >> zero H2 stations anywhere else in the USA. >> Currently, in the USA, there are over 1,000 public charging stations for >> every public H2 station. This number is increasing because while they are >> constantly installing new EV charging stations, they are shutting down H2 >> stations. >> For all intents and purposes, there is NO H2 fueling infrastructure in the >> USA, while Public EV charging stations are becoming common acrost most of >> the USA. Extremely common on the coasts. >> >> As stated above, if you are cracking water for you FCEV, then it takes 3-4x >> as much electricity per mile to charge at home (compared to a BEV) >> >> The weight of modern FCEV is roughly the same as the weight of comparable >> BEVs, so that's not an advantage to either. >> >> They have EVs available today that can recharge almost as fast as refueling >> a FCEV, and you can hook up the charge cord yourself, from what I've read >> every H2 fueling station requires a trained individual to connect the hose. >> Waiting for him/her to show up could elliminate the remaining time advantage. >> >> Consumers won't purchase FCEV unless they perceive and advantage TO THEM. >> Let me put it simply, what advantages do YOU see to ANYONE other than the >> folks that make H2? >> How do you see these advantages making FCEV economically viable? >> Viable enough to justify creating a nation wide H2 fueling infracstructure >> from scratch? >> _______________________________________________ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > _______________________________________________ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > _______________________________________________ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
