I have no idea whether any of your calcs or most assumptions are correct. But I’m not sure what “80%” number that you say I’ve referenced is. To what are you referring?
Also, since we are talking about the consumers perspective, I think you are making common mistake in equating cost with price. Going back to your comment about cost of charging, that has to be based on price, not cost. At a recent presentation by Electrify America, they said that they charge 31¢/kWh. I don’t know what other vendors charge, or whether this is based on a sustainable business model, or just an “introductory” price. They did say (or at least I thought they said) that their pricing model is based on the price of gasoline, which I know will make some heads spin. I will also point out, that if you are talking renewables, the cost of electricity varies significantly based on geography, time of day, etc.. Averages vary for geographic regions. And you haven’t said anything about cost of renewables, and isn’t that what we want? I recently saw a chart of cost of renewables by geographic region in the U.S. that showed the cost of renewables to be available for as low as 2 or 3¢/kWh. Plug Power (disclosure: a client of mine) has said publicly that they believe that they can produce hydrogen within a few years that will be competitive with diesel, given access to 3¢ solar. They are currently building a number of production plants. Your DOE reference sounds very old, as it refers to a 2015 goal, when FCEVs were just getting in the road. Recently, DOE announced a goal of $1.50/kg by 2030(?). I hope that information helps. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Aug 24, 2021, at 10:33 AM, Peter Eckhoff via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > Okay, one last bite at the apple. > > This quote came from a Wiki article: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water > " Considering the industrial production of hydrogen, and using current > best processes for water electrolysis (PEM or alkaline electrolysis) > which have an effective electrical efficiency of 70–80%,[31][32][33] > producing 1 kg of hydrogen (which has a specific energy of 143 MJ/kg) > requires 50–55 kW⋅h (180–200 MJ) of electricity. At an electricity > cost of $0.06/kW·h, as set out in the US Department of Energy hydrogen > production targets for 2015,[34] the hydrogen cost is $3/kg." > > There is the 80% that Mark has often mentioned. There is the cost of > electricity at $0.06/kwhr producing hydrogen using 50 kwh (the lower > number in the range). There is this statement from Toyota: "With a > tank capacity of five kilos, the MIRAI achieves a range of 500 km." > from this link: https://h2.live/en/fuelcell-cars/toyota-mirai/ > > So what happens when we crunch the numbers? > > 500 km = 311 miles > At full tank capacity, 5 kilos x 50 kwhr = 250 kwhr just to produce 5 > kg of hydrogen to go 311 miles. > My Tesla Model 3 gets about 4 mile / kwhr on the open road. 4 > miles/kwhr x 250 kwhr = 1,000 miles. > > The cost of electricity is $0.06/kwhr x 250 kwhr = $15.00 > > FCEV of 311 miles vs BEV range of 1,000 miles on the same amount of > electricity and that does not include the energy cost of compression > and transportation of hydrogen. > > When I crunch the numbers for an ICE at $3/gallon and $0.12/kwhr, The > cost of electricity goes up to $30 and the amount of gasoline goes to > 10 gallons. For a 50 mile/gallon ICE, that's a 500 mile range. > > > > > _______________________________________________ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
