Colin Hales wrote:
> Brent Meeker:
> <snip>
>>>Observation involves (necessitates) the AGI having experiences, some of
>>>which are an experiential representation of the external world. The
>>>process of generation of the experiential field(s) involves the
>>>of the AGI in the chain of causality from that which is observed 'out
>>>there' through the external world to the sensing surface, impact (causal
>>>interaction) measured by sensing, transport (causality again) of the
>>>measurement through the AGI to the brain where the measurement
>>>participates in the causality that is the creation of the experiential
>>So that is what is *involved* in creating the experiential field.  But
>>what is the field?  I understand it is a representation of the external
>>world, but what about it makes it a representation? I hope you're not
>>going to say because "the observer" recognizes or uses it as such.
> The fields: 
> In the case of visual field: virtual bosons as photons
> In the case of aural fields: virtual bosons as phonons
> In the case of touch fields: virtual bosons as touchons :-)
> In the case of touch fields: virtual bosons as tasteons :-)

Makes no sense to me.  Why "virtual"?  Touch is possible because fermions can't 
the same state.  Taste is due to the shape of molecules.  And what is "field" 
about it?

> I don't know the details of the various bosons yet, but there is an infinity
> of possibilities as the virtual bosons are arbitrarily configurable by the
> spatiotemporal behaviour of the neural membranes involved. This is virtual
> matter in the same sense that all the members of the standard model depict
> matter i.e.  boson is to matter as virtual boson is to virtual matter.
>>>It is by virtue of the existence/reality of the _entire_ causal
>>>chain that the experiential field can be created and be called
>>>of the external world. (Clearly experiential fields can also be created
>>>hallucinations/dreams, without the full causality chain - but that is
>>>the 'observation' we are talking about). In making use of the complete
>>>causal chain the oberver has access (inherits some of the properties of)
>>>to that which is observed.
>>This sound like your experiential field is a play performed in the
>>Cartesian theater fof the edification of the observer.
> No, it's better visualised as 'being a not-mirror' :-)
> Imagine you embedded a mirror in your head, but you were only interested in
> everything the mirror was not. That is, the image in the mirror is
> manipulating the space intimately adjacent to the reflecting surface. Keep
> the space, throw the reflecting surface and glass away. What you are
> interested in is 'being' that space, not the mirror. When you do that the
> 'movie screen' that is the experiential field becomes part of you. Yes it's
> a play, only 1 viewer who literally 'is' the theatre, no regressing
> homunculi. It's just that the brain material (neurons) paints the space like
> the mirror did. 


> BTW....Each neuron is like a single paintbrush and they all paint in
> parallel real time. Neurons to not have to actually 'fire' to paint. There
> are no particles actually traveling anywhere. If you slice occipital with a
> scalpel early damage would interfere with learning and ability to report
> contents of vision... but not necessarily the visual field itself. It'd take
> a lot of damage before the visual field was reportably that
> stage I'm pretty sure you'd have bled to death ... not an experiment I'd
> like to participate in, but that's my prediction. :-)
>>>This is not 'creating reality' in the
>>>Berkeleyian sense. This is participation in it. This is construction of
>>>representation of it from within the reality.
>>>This process I have described is observation and all of observation -
>>>nothin else counts as observation.
>>So anything happening in my brain that has a causal connection to the
>>world is an observation.  I can buy that, but it seems so broad as to
>> include things, like recalling memories, not usually called
>>Brent Meeker
> Recalled memories are in the same class as the hallucinations/dreams I
> mentioned. Such internally sourced fields (including all the emotions) are
> not the ones I call 'observation'. The sensory fields are hooked into the
> casual chain from the sensory measurements. They participate in the
> observation process.
> All pretty straightforward.

Memories are also hooked in the causal chain from sensory measurements if they 
veridical memories of perceptions.

Brent Meeker

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