Hi John:

Sorry I did not respond earlier.
Lately I do not have time to read the list posts and respond during the week.

At 04:02 PM 1/29/2007, you wrote:
>Hal, a decade ago I 'read' your text easier than now: you firmed up 
>your vocabulary - gradually out of my understanding. Sorry.
>You seem to accept 'observer moments' and their interaction - even 
>postulate one variable needed.

Observer moments and states of universes I take as being identical.

To say that they do not interact is a selection.  Selections create 
information and I prefer the point of view that the top level system 
should have zero net information.  The All [has many other names 
suppose] has zero net information because it contains all 
information.  I separate out of the information zero "All" for 
examination a list of all properties that an object can have.   That 
is I select a boundary in the All from among its infinite number of 
boundaries.  My list being a list can be countably infinite and the 
set of all its sub sets would then be uncountably infinite.  There 
are then an uncountably infinite number of objects which can be taken 
to be states of universes.

>How long is an OM? a million years (cosmology) or a msec?

States of universes have permanent uniform existence.  The question 
is how "long" can they have a non zero hyper existence.  The answer 
is all values [to avoid more selection].

>Even if it is a portion of the latter, it makes the existence quite 
>discontinuous - with all the difficulties in it. If it is 
>continuous, then how can we talk about 'moments'? Should we assign 
>an equal rate change to all existence (meaning: ONE selection for 
>the OM length)? If it can be ANY, varying from the infinitely short 
>to the other extreme, it would 'wash away' any sense of the meaning 
>of an Observer MOMENT concept.

My flow of hyper existence with its possible non binary pulse shapes 
could make consciousness "continuous" for some sequences of 
states.  SAS might find a universe state sequence in which the pulse 
rises from zero to 1 and then back to zero in a many step stair case 
fashion user friendly.

>I think the OM is the figment of us, human observers, who want to 
>use an 'understandable' model. [Like: numbers (in the human logic sense).]
>Then, in view of the resulting 'unfathomable', we 'complicate' these 
>models - originally created FOR comprehension - into 
>incomprehensibility. [The way as e.g. to bridge Bohm's Explicate to 
>the Implicate (by Nic de  Cusa's 2nd principle, left out by Bohm: 
>the "Complicate" - what I like to assign as math).]
>That 'one' variable property you mention as needed for state- 
>interaction is IMO not necessarily  o n e  within our (present) comprehension.

I identify my list's sub sets as states of universes.  The 
interaction variable I call hyper existence could be compared with a 
UD trace.  When the trace lands on a state it gets a non zero hyper 
existence.  You could have UDs that assign a 0.1 hyper existence, UDs 
that assign a 0.2 value,  UDs that assign a 0.8 value,  UDs that 
assign a 1.0 value etc. etc.  Now all my model would ask for next is 
for a sting of universe states that look like ours is in lasting 
[infinite] compatible set of UD trace intersections.  Since all UDs 
are infinitely nested, an infinite set of such trace intersection 
sets would be obtained.  My model has a dynamic originated in the 
incompleteness of some of the list sub sets and this dynamic has a 
random content due to the internal and external inconsistency of some 
of the list's sub sets.

As far as I can tell from this, my model may include Bruno's model as a subset.


Hal Ruhl

----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Hal Ruhl
To: <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:02 PM
Subject: RE: ASSA and Many-Worlds

One thing that I do not agree with is what seems to me to be a common
holding regarding observer moments [by this I mean discrete states of
universes [which are a sub set of possible "objects"]] is that they
are each so far assumed to have a set of properties that are to some
extent the same as other observer moments and to some extent
different from all other observer moments [to distinguish individual
moments] but nevertheless the properties of an individual observer
moment are fixed for that observer moment.

This to me is not logical since it is a selection and why that
selection?  Why not have some blend of variable properties and fixed
properties as a possibility?  This seems more in accord with a zero
information ensemble.

Further, if it is also held that observer moments can not interact -
that is also a selection.

I have proposed in other posts that there should be at least one
variable property through which universe states can interact.  The
idea is that all possible universe states have a uniform existence
property, but also can have an addition property that is a variable
that one could call hyper existence through which they can
interact.  They interact by mutually altering each others hyper
existence property.  This variable property should not have just a
binary set of values as a possibility but should also have many
discrete levels as a possibility - again to avoid selection.  In
other words a universe state could experience a non square pulse of
hyper existence which could span many of the "this particular state"
to other state interactions.  This would be like a "wave" of hyper
existence propagating through some succession of universe
states.  Non binary, non square pulses of propagating hyper existence
could be a basis for what is called "consciousness" - a "flow" of
modulated awareness.

Given a random component to the underlying dynamic [which I have also
discussed ] some such wave propagations with non binary, non square
pulses of hyper existence would be through infinite strings of
successive states that would all be "life" - and even beyond that -
"SAS" friendly.

Hal Ruhl

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