On 23 Nov 2008, at 22:09, Günther Greindl wrote: > > Bruno, > >> From this we can extract a logic of the observable proposition and >> compare with the empirical quantum logic, making comp testable, and >> already tested on its most weird consequences, retrospectively. > > you could refute COMP (MEC) if it would contradict empirical QM, but > QM > (and especially many worlds) is also compatible with MAT (and NOT > COMP).
I think you are correct, but allowing the observer to be mechanically described as obeying the wave equation (which solutions obeys to comp), is the main motivation for the Many-World. Why not saying directly that the mind collapse the wave then? I mean Everett is really SWE+COMP. (or weakening of COMP). I think that the wave collapse has been invented for both keeping the physical universe unique, but also making the observer beyond science. > > > These would be Tegmark's Level I and II universes - infinite physical > (or mathematical physicalist as defined by Kory) universes with matter > permuting in all possible ways. If you then let consciousness > supervene > on matter (but not in a COMP way (see MGA) - maybe because of local > infinities or whatever) and with UNIFICATION you would also get a many > worlds scenario (also in the sense that for a 1st person one would > have > to look at the MAT-histories running through every OM) > > In your posts you do seem to have a preference for COMP (although you > say you don't have a position ;-) but I think you definitely lean more > to COMP than to MAT - are there reasons for this or is it only a > personal predilection? It is the same reason why someone in the dark can be searching its key only under the lamp. Elsewhere there is no chance he finds it. With comp we do have a theory of mind. With MAT we haven't (except bibles, myth, etc.). There is no standard notion of mat histories, no satisfying notion of wholeness (like the deployment with comp). To have MAT correct, you have to accept not only actual infinities, but concrete actual infinities that you cannot approximate with Turing machine, nor with Turing Machine with oracle. You are a bit back to literal angels and fairies ... Of course MAT + not COMP is consistent. Many catholic theological reading of Aristotelian based Matter theory propose similar idea making the soul "material" at some point. To my knowledge, Penrose is the only scientist which endorses this kind of views, allowing gravitation to play a role in the collapse. Its motivation from Godel's theorem are not correct, but its main "NON COMP or NOT MAT" starting intuition is valid with respect to MGA-UDA. As I said many times, COMP is my favorite working *hypothesis*. It is my bread (or should be ...). I like it because it makes a part of philosophy or theology a science. We can doubt it, discuss it, and even refute it, with some chance, or confirme. MAT has been a wonderful methodological assumption, but it has always being incoherent, or eliminativist on the mind. > > p.s.: I am looking forward to your further MGA posts (how far will > they > go, you have hinted up to MGA 5?) and the ensuing discussion, I have > very much enjoyed reading all this stuff. Thanks. And so you believe that MAT+MEC makes Alice conscious through the projection of its brain movie! You really want me to show this is absurd. It is not so easy, and few people find this necessary, but I will do asap (MGA 3). MGA 4 is for those who make a special sort of objection which has not yet appeared, or those who will make a special objection to MGA 3, so ..., well I will do it because it puts more light on the meaning of the computational supervenience thesis. But MGA 4 is really ... Maudlin. And MGA 5 should be just a form of OCCAM razor, but I don't think this will be necessary, except perhaps for some last Advocate's devils and theoreticians of the Conspiracies :) I will due this hopefully this week. Thanks for the patience. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---