2009/3/30 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>

> Hi Kelly, and others,
> Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually
> last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know
> only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes. I am happy you found
> your experience interesting. You can consult and discuss your
> experience, and those of others here:
> http://www.entheogen.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=135
> Now the real question is, does that experience helped in providing, for
> example, an answer to my last remark to Quentin?
> I quote the question again. It is important concerning
> comp-immortality, and eventually how to derive physics from computer
> science.
> I do think such a question is difficult, and show the weakness in
> identifying the self with personal memories, and this justifies the
> necessity of the AUDA move, I think.
> Of course, if you enjoy dream-state-like, you can enjoy Salvia without
> troubling yourself with hard metaphysical questions. Yet I would be
> interesting if Quentin or Stathis, or anyone, could acknowledge a
> conceptual difficulty here.
> <<Hmmm...
> I ask you, and others, this question. What is the probability "now",
> that you will find yourself in Washington and Moscow the 24 december
> 2009, when you are annihilated in Brussels, now, (17 March 2009) and
> reconstituted in both Moscow and Washington the 18 March 2009, say)?
> The problem is that the reconstitution machine did dysfunction in
> Washington, so that, from the 18 March 2009 up to the 20 Augustus 2009
> you (the you in Washington) suffered a  "total amnesia".  And then,
> "you" recovered slowly and progressively from that through adequate
> medication up to a total recall, the 23 December (and none of yous did
> move from W or M).

Well I think all of this depends on the fact that your memories "come back".
If it doesn't then I will not be in washington, cqfd.

What you're talking about salvia (loosing your personnal identity during the
experience) is only correct because you have memories of it (salvia
experience) on your current self which knows he is Bruno. If you had no
memories of it then it makes no sense to say you did loose your "identity".

As for conscious dream... I don't think you *do* know you're conscious while
dreaming, but you do know it after the dreaming experience.


> Note that with high concentrated extract of Salvia Divinorum, people
> can "suffer" (or "enjoy") a total amnesia, where you forget not just
> your name and memories of life, but you forget even what is a person,
> what is space, what is time.  Yet you remain conscious. Life appears as
> a dream, that you recall vaguely, and then forget, and then you forget
> you did that dream. Yet "you" come back. (See the reports, I don't
> encourage its consumption, but anyone interested by consciousness can
> be interested by such reports).>>
> Le 28-mars-09, à 20:50, Kelly a écrit :
> >
> >
> > I tried Salvia for the first time yesterday.  Very similar to
> > dreaming, but more intense, with a lot more sounds.
> >
> > At first I thought, "Nothing's happening".  Then I thought, "I seem to
> > be about to slide sidewise...I need to stop".
> >
> > Then, I was sitting somewhere...in a tilled field I think, and I
> > couldn't remember who I was.  Then I thought, someone's going to be in
> > trouble...I need to tell my sister.
> >
> > Then, for the next 30 minutes it was 1978, and I was in Arkansas, and
> > I was a kid again.
> >
> > Every now and then I'd think, "What's going on???  Did I take
> > something?"
> >
> > But I could never remember for sure.  A couple of times I would think
> > of the Salvia extract, but I couldn't remember if it was just
> > something I'd heard of, or if I'd actually used it.  And I'd decide,
> > "Nah, couldn't be salvia...reality doesn't work that way.  That would
> > be like magic."
> >
> > After about 30 minutes of dreaming it was 1978, and I was 7, and in
> > Arkansas,  I came to enough to look at the clock, and I remember
> > thinking, "It didn't work..."
> >
> > THEN, I was underwater looking up towards the surface, and there was a
> > giant squid passing over me.
> >
> > About 20 minutes later, I got up and starting writing up what I'd
> > seen, but I was still drifting in and out, like I was having day-
> > dreams.  And they were still about Arkansas 1978, but it was like I
> > was there, and there was a plan, and I was part of it.  Something was
> > about to happen, and I was like part of a group that knew about it.
> >
> > Over the next hour the day-dreams stopped, and within 2 hours of
> > starting it was over.
> >
> > Very interesting.
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/>
> >

All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

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