Bruno: I meant the mathematical formalism you are teaching us. When we eventually get to the UDA steps, I wil be better able to do that assessment. Ronald

On Jul 27, 1:27 pm, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > On 27 Jul 2009, at 16:07, ronaldheld wrote: > > > > > I am following, but have not commented, because there is nothing > > controversal. > > Cool. Even the sixth first steps of UDA? > > > > > When you are done, can your posts be consolidated into a paper or a > > document that can be read staright through? > > I should do that. > > Bruno > > > > > > > On Jul 23, 9:28 am, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > >> On 23 Jul 2009, at 15:09, m.a. wrote: > > >>> Bruno, > >>> Yes, yours and Brent's explanations seem very clear. I > >>> hate to ask you to spell things out step by step all the way, but I > >>> can tell you that when I'm confronted by a dense hedge or clump of > >>> math symbols, my mind refuses to even try to disentangle them and > >>> reels back in terror. So I beg you to always advance in baby steps > >>> with lots of space between statements. I want to assure you that I'm > >>> printing out all of your 7-step lessons and using them for study and > >>> reference. Thanks for your patience, m.a. > > >> Don't worry, I understand that very well. And this illustrates also > >> that your "despair" is more psychological than anything else. I have > >> also abandoned the study of a mathematical book until I realize that > >> the difficulty was more my bad eyesight than any conceptual > >> difficulties. With good spectacles I realize the subject was not too > >> difficult, but agglomeration of little symbols can give a bad > >> impression, even for a mathematician. > > >> I will make some effort, tell me if my last post, on the relation > > >> (a^n) * (a^m) = a^(n + m) > > >> did help you. > > >> You are lucky to have an infinitely patient teacher. You can ask any > >> question, like "Bruno, > > >> is (a^n) * (a^m) the same as a^n times a^m?" > >> Answer: yes, I use often "*", "x", as shorthand for "times", and I > >> use "(" and ")" as delimiters in case I fear some ambiguity. > > >> Bruno > > >>> -- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Bruno Marchal > >>> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 12:20 PM > >>> Subject: Re: The seven step series > > >>> Marty, > > >>> Brent wrote: > > >>> On 21 Jul 2009, at 23:24, Brent Meeker wrote: > > >>>> Take all strings of length 2 > >>>> 00 01 10 11 > >>>> Make two copies of each > >>>> 00 00 01 01 10 10 11 11 > >>>> Add a 0 to the first and a 1 to the second > >>>> 000 001 010 011 100 101 110 111 > >>>> and you have all strings of length 3. > > >>> Then you wrote > > >>>> I can see where adding 0 to the first and 1 to the second gives 000 > >>>> and 001 and I think I see how you get 010 but the rest of the > >>>> permutations don't seem obvious to me. P-l-e-a-s-e explain, Best, > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> m > >>>> . (mathematically hopeless) a. > > >>> Let me rewrite Brent's explanation, with a tiny tiny tiny > >>> improvement: > > >>> Take all strings of length 2 > >>> 00 > >>> 01 > >>> 10 > >>> 11 > >>> Make two copies of each > > >>> first copy: > >>> 00 > >>> 01 > >>> 10 > >>> 11 > > >>> second copy > >>> 00 > >>> 01 > >>> 10 > >>> 11 > > >>> add a 0 to the end of the strings in the first copy, and then add a > >>> 1 to the end of the strings in the second copy: > > >>> first copy: > >>> 000 > >>> 010 > >>> 100 > >>> 110 > > >>> second copy > >>> 001 > >>> 011 > >>> 101 > >>> 111 > > >>> You get all 8 elements of B_3. > > >>> You can do the same reasoning with the subsets. Adding an element to > >>> a set multiplies by 2 the number of elements of the powerset: > > >>> Exemple. take a set with two elements {a, b}. Its powerset is {{ } > >>> {a} {b} {a, b}}. How to get all the subset of {a, b, c} that is the > >>> set coming from adding c to {a, b}. > > >>> Write two copies of the powerset of {a, b} > > >>> { } > >>> {a} > >>> {b} > >>> {a, b} > > >>> { } > >>> {a} > >>> {b} > >>> {a, b} > > >>> Don't add c to the set in the first copy, and add c to the sets in > >>> the second copies. This gives > > >>> { } > >>> {a} > >>> {b} > >>> {a, b} > > >>> {c} > >>> {a, c} > >>> {b, c} > >>> {a, b, c} > > >>> and that gives all subsets of {a, b, c}. > > >>> This is coherent with interpreting a subset {a, b} of a set {a, b, > >>> c}, by a string like 110, which can be conceived as a shortand for > > >>> Is a in the subset? YES, thus 1 > >>> Is b in the subset? YES thus 1 > >>> Is c in the subset? NO thus 0. > > >>> OK? > > >>> You say also: > > >>>> The example of Mister X only confuses me more. > > >>> Once you understand well the present post, I suggest you reread the > >>> Mister X examples, because it is a key in the UDA reasoning. If you > >>> still have problem with it, I suggest you quote it, line by line, > >>> and ask question. I will answer (or perhaps someone else). > > >>> Don't be afraid to ask any question. You are not mathematically > >>> hopeless. You are just not familiarized with reasoning in math. It > >>> is normal to go slowly. As far as you can say "I don't understand", > >>> there is hope you will understand. > > >>> Indeed, concerning the UDA I suspect many in the list cannot say "I > >>> don't understand", they believe it is philosophy, so they feel like > >>> they could object on philosophical ground, when the whole point is > >>> to present a deductive argument in a theory. So it is false, or you > >>> have to accept the theorem in the theory. It is a bit complex, > >>> because it is an "applied theory". The mystery are in the axioms of > >>> the theory, as always. > > >>> So please ask *any* question. I ask this to everyone. I am intrigued > >>> by the difficulty some people can have with such reasoning (I mean > >>> the whole UDA here). (I can understand the shock when you get the > >>> point, but that is always the case with new results: I completely > >>> share Tegmark's idea that our brain have not been prepared to > >>> have any intuition when our mind try to figure out what is behind > >>> our local neighborhood). > > >>> Bruno > > >>>http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > >>http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/-Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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