Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> And what do you mean by "stay there"? Forever? Why should you stay >> there >> (can you choose)? And where is there? Is it forgetfulness oder >> remembrance? > > It is very difficult to describe any first person experience. We > cannot even describe normal state of consciousness, so it is even > harder to describe "altered state of consciousness". That's certainly true. Words can never convery an experience, they can only link the experience and known experiences. But sometimes even this is difficult. The difference between looking at a plain wall with my normal state of consciousness and on shrooms is somehow pretty small, yet very big. It looks the same, only more clear, crisp, real and incomparably more beatiful... But many people simply won't get how a wall could look "more real", especially when you "cloud your mind with drugs" - they will say I "just imagined" it or I was "too wasted", which is totally ridiculous to me.
Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Second half: > ... I am. I am in paradise since infinity. I enjoy the being state, > but "there" there is no past, and no future. But in retrospection, isn't this wrong? Because you are in the future now, aren't you? Or maybe you never really leave this place? So you are still there... After all, you are always in the present, now matter what happens. And in some way you are in paradise, since even if you experience something bad, at least "it admits" that it is bad and wants to go, so it is meaningless compared to infinite possibilities of constant or growing well-being. Maybe if you can take this knowledge with you (even though it seems impossible; maybe it is possible partially?), nirvana (The word seems to fit what you experienced) and samsara begin to appear as what they really are, the same (according to Mahāyāna Buddhism). Is this what being (or becoming?) enlightened is about? Somehow I can't believe reality could be so dual: That there is this place, and our totally different place, that are disconnected. Bruno Marchal wrote: > > I have no memory, but > still a sort of personality. Suddenly I get memories and I think "oh > no, not again", because at that moment I have the feeling that > something happens, which has already happened a lot of times. It's funny, I get that feeling sometimes on shrooms, though not at returning, but at the beginning of going to this "place of oneness". Like I remember that I begin to arrive "at home", at the place I "really" belong. At first I feel really comforted, but then fear (and/or aversion) starts to set in. I actually feel like having been there somehow, but not in this life, or not completely or not yet? It is so familiar, yet I don't think I "really" was there. Bruno Marchal wrote: > > The > memories get more and more precise, and at some point I accept them, > but does not recognize them as "personal memories", then I got the > last memories which are "I want to stay in paradise", and I understand > that I am "a copy" send to earth to finish "his" job. I find myself on > earth, but during some hours, I have still the memory of having always > lived "there", and almost got the feeling that the smoking of salvia > made me going from paradise to earth. Maybe it's just a illusion that you leave paradise? Maybe earth is a part of paradise. Bruno Marchal wrote: > > The first time I did that type of salvia experience, I kept during > three days the strong feeling of being completely refresh or reborn, > like if I was just on earth since some days. Everything looked as > completely new. I did not feel any memory as being personal, and that > has been indeed very useful useful for doing some annoying job, and > taking annoying decisions, I have to make. That feeling faded away the > fourth day after the experience. I think I know what you mean. Though for me it just lasts seconds or minutes. When I'm on shrooms (and it happened on salvia + weed, too) sometimes I feel like being able to view the world like being reborn. Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Some people lives a similar experience except that, instead of feeling > like being in paradise, they feel like being in hell. I think that's what I experienced on N2O. All meaning started to disintegrate. All I could think about was: "What is the worst experience you could possibly imagine." As far as I remember I literally repeated this sentence in my mind over and over (in german though). And I felt ever more shallow and useless and "imprisoned". There was no path left except the path of self-destruction. I simply seemed unable to remember anything positve. At one moment I believed I'm the only person doomed to hell. Probably this was the worst moment in my life. Sometimes I think or hope it is the worst moment you can have. At least I can't think of a worse thought than being the only person going to eternal hell. But then I realized "I'm am NOT that" and I felt immensely relieved... Maybe what I realized was: "I am not nobody as I thought before - 'only nobody' will go to hell!"? Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> Or remembering something exhilarating, but >> being unable to express it or store it in my memory completely (I >> tend to >> think it's just the realization that there are no "bad problems", > > A general message is that there are no problem as far as you are clean > with your own conscience. Apparently the plant is allergic to people > lying to themselves. It is one of the most bizarre aspect of the > salvia experience, it has a moral dimension. The more peaceful you are > with yourself, the more divine you feel the bliss. It is very weird. > It is just impossible to escape the annoying responsibilities you have > in your life. Despite showing you that your life is a tiny illusory > aspect of vaster reality, you have no choice than to accomplish or > honestly try to accomplish "your mission on earth". Salvia actually > seems to confront you with your responsibilities. Life is a dream, but > you have to take it very seriously. Maybe because every dream is part of a higher reality? So disregarding the dream leads to disregarding the constituents of reality and ultimately reality itself. If you can choose to stay there, isn't this escaping your responsibilities? Bruno Marchal wrote: > > But not more. By many aspect it > is the complete opposite of the effect of weed, which can be sued to > escape some painful aspect of life. For me this certainly doesn't work. Weed makes me think about very serious philosophical problems and can let me access thoughts that I see as true intellectually more deeply, too. But it also can make me quite psychotic temporarily (once I thought everyone else was just me in the future :D). -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Why-I-am-I--tp26616194p26669361.html Sent from the Everything List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.