On 17 Sep 2010, at 19:52, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:

on 17.09.2010 14:33 1Z said the following:


On 26 Aug, 17:37, David Nyman<david.ny...@gmail.com>  wrote:


...

Whatever composite categories we might be tempted to have recourse
to - you know: molecules, cells, bodies, planets, ideas,
explanations, theories, the whole ball of wax - none of these are
available from this perspective.  Don't need them.  More
rigorously, they *must not be invoked* because they *do not exist*.
They don't need to exist, because the machine doesn't need them to
carry all the load and do all the work.

OTOH, they must exist because if you have two hydrogens and an
oxygen, you inevitably have the compound H2O. You also have many
other compounds which are not dreamt of in our philosophy. the set of
compounds is basically the powerset of the set of basic entities.
there may not be any objective facts about what is a "true" compound,
but the powerset unproblematically includes everything we
conventionally regard as a compound as a powerset

The next citation by Robert B. Laughlin (Nobel laureate in physics) could be of interest here:

http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2010/08/matter-and-little-ghosts.html

"By the most important effect of phase organisation is to cause objects to exist. This point is subtle and easily overlooked, since we are accustomed to thinking about solidification in terms of packing of Newtonian spheres.

That is indeed naive.



Atoms are not Newtonian spheres, however, but ethereal quantum- mechanical entities lacking that most central of all properties of an object – an identifiable position.

That is naive, and fuzzy.


This is why attempts to describe free atoms in Newtonian terms always result in nonsense statements such as their being neither here nor there but simultaneously everywhere.

IMO, this has been solved by Everett 1957 (many-worlds). This is also a necessary consequence of logic + arithmetic + "I am a machine".


It is aggregation into large objects that makes a Newtonian description of the atoms meaningful, not the reverse.

I would say it is the first person filtration of coherent histories, to be short.



One might compare this phenomenon with a yet-to-be-filmed Stephen Spilberg movie in which a huge number of little ghosts lock arms and, in doing so, become corporeal."

Why not, if the atoms are the positive integers and the arms are addition and multiplication, but the physical reality is a projection of infinities of numbers, a biew of arithmetic from inside. No need of magical matter, nor magical arms, just numbers confronted to their own self-referential abilities.

Bruno

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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