On 04 Feb 2011, at 01:59, Brent Meeker wrote:

On 2/3/2011 5:17 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 03 Feb 2011, at 01:18, Brent Meeker wrote:

On 2/2/2011 2:00 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Brent Meeker<meeke...@dslextreme.com > wrote:


I think it very likely that the brain can be so modeled. But the meaning that simulated brain, as expressed in it's output decisions relative to inputs is dependent on the rest of the world, or at least of it with which the brain will interact - including the past evoutionary history which led up to the brain. Its computations have no canonical interpretation in
themselves.

You can connect the simulated brain to transducers which convert
environmental inputs into electrical signals. But then, what would
happen if the same electrical signals were input from data on disk
rather than the environment? Would the brain's experience be
different? If so, how would it know where the data was coming from?


It wouldn't know; and it's responses would have no meaning except to someone who did know. Context is essential. Otherwise you get the rock that calculates everything.


If the context is needed and is not Turing emulable, then comp is just false. If it is Turing emulable then the reasoning go through, unless you have an objection, and it would be nice you try to say where.

Bruno

My reservation is that the context will be Turing emulable, but it will have to be so large as to constitute a whole world. That this is what is required that be self-interpreting.


But that is not an objection at all. It is just an affirmation that our comp substitution level is so low that the doctor has to emulate the entire physical universe to get an artificial brain. But the reasoning still go through, and the laws of physics have still to be retrieved from computer science, and so we keep the qualia/quanta distinction, which is fine.

The only thing which *is* ruled out by having such a low substitution level is the idea of buying *in practice* an artificial brain. But this practice idea is not used in the reasoning. It is used in step 1-6 for making things easier, but is eliminated by the step seven. If the entire physical universe is Turing emulable, the UD will emulate it infinitely often, and the measure problem remains (a nice problem given that its current solution already explain many things, which are not explained, or are explained away, by physicalism).

Bruno


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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