John - I think you misread the recent exchange between Brent and myself. Brent was asserting that the question "What is life" is somehow obsolete - not resolved per se, but no longer interesting. I was asserting the opposite - that it is indeed still open.
As for life-like - it is a weasel word. It can mean whatever the author desires, although in practice, ALife article referees have a "pornography test" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it) to determine whether an article should be considered on topic. Cheers On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 06:57:34PM -0400, John Mikes wrote: > Russell: > > "...Life-like phenomena" > implies something 'life-like'. So: LIKE WHAT are those phenomena? > I would not turn to my other side in peace that biologists are negligent. I > ask them: > what do you have in mind when you SAY: l i f e ? (their base line: the > 'bio') > It is more than just biochem churnings of C,O,H,N,P,...based molecules. > Robert Rosen said: Metabolism and Repair - but on WHAT substrate? Brent is > right, the question is open. Then again consider the phenomena in different > 'physical' environments - maybe in totally different circumstantial ones. > Alife has wide borders I suppose. Hi temp, anerobic, hi/low pressure, > different Mendelejeff set-up, different gravity, density, etc. etc.? > Consciousness is not far and (my agnostic views) the so far unknown factors > get involved as we learn about them. I call this one a response to relations > (formerly: information). > Life can be anything that changes? where does mentality come in? > John M > > On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Russell Standish > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:44:37AM -0700, meekerdb wrote: > > > But of course we can prove that a machine can think to the same > > > degree we can prove other people think. That we cannot prove it > > > from some self-evident set of axioms is completely unsurprising. > > > This comports with my idea that with the development of AI the > > > "question of consciousness" will come to be seen as a archaic, like > > > "What is life?". > > > > > > Brent > > > > "What is life?" is _still_ a vexing question. Biologists don't worry > > too much about it, because the answer to it doesn't really help their > > day-to-day work. But in the Artificial Life field, it is more > > acute. Mostly we dodge the issue by saying we're studying "life-like" > > phenomena, and leave it at that, but at every ALife conference I've > > been to, there has been a session (with multiple papers addressing > > this or connected topics). > > > > > > -- > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > > Principal, High Performance Coders > > Visiting Professor of Mathematics [email protected] > > University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics [email protected] University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
