On 8/15/2011 11:08 PM, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote:


On 8/15/2011 7:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote:

    just like you can simulate flight if you simulate the environment
    you are flying in.


But do we need to simulate the entire atmosphere in order to simulate flight, or just the atmosphere in the immediate area around the surfaces of the plane? Likewise, it seems we could take shortcuts in simulating the environment surrounding a mind and get the behavior we are after.


Why simulate? Why not create a robot with sensors so it can interact the natural environment.

Brent

[Colin]

Hi Brent,

There seems to be another confusion operating here. What makes you think I am not creating a robot with sensors? What has this got to do with simulation?

1) Having sensors is not simulation. Humans have sensors...eg retina.

2) The use of sensors does not connect the robot to the environment in any unique way. The incident photon could have come across the room or the galaxy. Nobody tells a human which, yet the brain sorts it out.


Or makes it up. :-)

3) A robot brain based on replication uses sensors like any other robot.

4) What I am saying is that the replication approach will handle the sensors like a human brain handles sensors.

Of course we don't have to simulate the entire universe to simulate flight. The fact is we simulate _/some/_ of the environment in order that flight simulation works. /It's a simulation./ *It's not flight*. This has nothing to do with the actual problem of real embedded embodied cognition of an unknown external environment by an AGI. You don't know it! You are 'cognising' to find out about it. You can't simulate it and the sensors don't give you enough info. If a human supplies that info then you're grounding the robot in the human's cognition, not supplying the robot with its own cognition.

In replication there is no simulating going on! There is inorganic, artificially derived natural processes identical to what is going on in a natural brain. Literally. A brain has action potential comms. A brain has EM comms. Therefore a replicated brain will have the SAME action potentials mutually interacting with the same EM fields. The replicant chips will have an EEG/MEG signature like a human. There is no computing of anything. There is inorganic version of the identical processes going on in a real brain.

I hope we're closer to being on the same page.


Yes, I agree with the above, except maybe the EM. The brain is essentially electrically neutral. The chemical reactions change the local fields as electrons are moved but these are very short range, atomic scale fields. The overall fields don't seem to matter; otherwise your thoughts would get scrambled every time you got near an electric motor or a flourescent light. So when you refer to an "inorganic version of the identical process going on in a real brain" it's not clear at what level you mean "identical" - apparently not at the quark and lepton level. If it's not identical at that level (the lowest possible) then in what sense is it identical. Computationalism says it only has to be identical at the level of computing the input/output function - it's a specific version of functionalism.

Brent

Colin

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