On Mon, Jan 23, 2012  Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Identical twins have the same genetics and they can disagree with each
> other."

That tells you nothing, a copy of you that was exact down to the limit
imposed by Heisenberg would disagree with you about all sorts of things,
like who was your wife and who controlled your bank account.

> We don't see too many people change their opinion midstream without
> knowing why, as would be the case in this cosmic ray scenario.

You've never seen anybody you know very well act out of character? You've
never surprised yourself and acted out of character and felt foolish and
angry with yourself afterward?

> It's not for a reason, it is through your own reasoning. You are
> providing the reason yourself.

So it's not for a reason and it's for a reason. Make up your mind!

> > you're saying a yellow traffic signal is not red AND not not red, and
>> that my friend is gibberish.
> > Yellow anticipates red, so the meaning of it can also be considered not
> not-red.

And that my friend is logical nonsense, if yellow isn't red you can't say
yellow isn't not red either, they teach that in Logic 101. So if Free Will
isn't deterministic you can't say it isn't not deterministic either. And I
seem to remember you accusing me of anthropomorphism and me saying it's a
valid tool but it can be abused, and I think that a color anticipating
something is a example of abuse.

>>> It's like I'm watching Fox News or something.
>> >> That's the worst insult I've ever had in my life.
> > Sorry. Maybe was hyperbole.

Yeah, call me a scum sucking mutant if you want but don't compare me with
Fox News, that's hitting below the belt.

> I don't see a difference between will and free will.

One is cause by something or not caused by something, the other is caused
by nothing and isn't  caused by nothing. In other words one makes logical
sense and one does not.

> We talk of compulsion and addiction as disorders because they defy our
> will.

In addiction we want to take drugs, we may want to not want to take drugs
but as the old Rolling Stones song goes "you can't always get what you

> If there were no free will, society would have no impulse to punish.
> There would be no stigma against crime at all, we would just accept that
> nothing has any control over its own behavior.

Don't be ridiculous. If you're chasing me with a bloody ax I don't give a
hoot in hell if you had bad genes or bad upbringing or were the victim of a
unfortunate random quantum fluctuation or if you can control your behavior
or not, I just want society to do everything in its power to get you to
stop chasing me with that damn ax and to discourage similar activity in the

> Other people's consciousness is really none of my business.

And yet you think a computers consciousness is our business. Actually from
a human viewpoint it doesn't matter if computers are conscious or not, but
it does matter that they're smart and getting smarter very very fast.

> Anyone can seem intelligent if they are given the answers to the test.
> All Watson does is match up questions to the answers it already has been
> given.

So you think Watson's programers could deduce every single question anybody
could ask and then they just wrote up a appropriate answer. That's just

> The test of intelligence is when computers begin killing their
> programmers intentionally.

It's only a matter of time.

> Watson can only outsmart me at Jeopardy.

And at checkers and chess and solving equations and at being a research
librarian and being a accountant. Give it another 5 years and you can add
driver, pilot ,lawyer and physician to the list.

> Let us both try figuring out whether or not someone is being sarcastic or
> not and we'll see who wins.

Watson is already very good at puns, rhymes and word games, and very often
on the net I make some sarcastic wisecrack and people think I'm serious; or
at least I think they're people.

 John K Clark

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