On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 7:20 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>wrote:

> Obviously Watson or Siri give you access to intelligence, but so does a
> book.

A book can contain information that can help you answer questions but can
not do so directly, but Watson and Siri can; and all three could help you
if you were doing research and writing a serious academic paper, but ELIZA
would be of no help whatsoever. ELIZA's vague evasive answers tells you
nothing you didn't already know, so when the Chinese Room in your thought
experiment behaves like ELIZA it's about as useful in enlightening us about
the nature of consciousness or intelligence as a Chinese Fortune Cookie.

> You might consider that we don't need a test. That intelligence is
> fundamentally different than muscle strength or height.

You don't know if somebody is tall until you see he is tall, you don't know
if he's strong until he does something that requires a lot of strength and
you don't know he is intelligent until you see him do something smart.

> That's helpful but it is still the programmer's intelligence that is
> reflected in the program, not the computer's.

Fine, even the largest computer is just a big lump of semiconductors
without a program.

> Do you think that productivity for the sake of productivity will lead to
> anything meaningful?

Obviously yes.

>the existence of other minds can only be inferred through behavior.
> That's an assumption. You rule out all other epistemology arbitrarily.

Expand on that, show me how you can deduce that other conscious minds exist
without speech writing or some other mode of behavior showing up somewhere
in the logical deductive chain. If you can do that not only will you have
won the argument you would be the greatest philosopher by far in the
history of this small planet.

> Sulfuric acid is H2SO4, remove the sulfur and 3 oxygen atoms and the
>> result is H2O, and
>> you can water corn with water just fine. In a similar way the only
>> difference between a cadaver and a healthy person is the way the atoms are
>> organized.
> By that reasoning, all matter is the same thing.

Yep, organize the electrons neutrons and protons in the right way (which
requires information of course) you can make anything including you and me.

> Which is true in some sense, but it is the opposite of cosmos,
> consciousness and realism.

Then logically we can only conclude that whatever you mean by "cosmos
consciousness and realism" cannot be correct because the opposite of the
truth is false.

  John K Clark

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