On 2/16/2012 8:20 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 2/16/2012 8:58 PM, meekerdb wrote:
So Kraus' argument does itself show at least one aspect of how classical teleportation
is problematic. I rest my case.
But his teleportation, which is based on transmitting the position of every atom in a
human body is far more than required for Bruno's argument which only requires
transporting the brain's functional structure. The position of atoms in your body
change continuously with no influence on your consciousness.
And where is the reference to an article discussing the experiment that shows that
this claim is true? Have you considered that our "conscious" experience might be a tiny
sliver of what is going on in our heads, which includes all those atoms changing their
positions (with how much momentum? we can determine that using thermodynamics and
temperature arguments for a statistical average, OK)? So all we need is semi-exact
position data and a statistical upper and lower bound of their momenta and we can
reproduce a brain? Go ahead, give it a whirl. ;-)
Additionally, in consideration of the "mapping the neural network" idea, how
exactly are you going to overcome the fact that the more precisely you measure the
positions of every atom in a brain the less information you can gather of their momenta?
Irrelevant. Computation takes place at the classical level, so you only need classical
Umm,OK. What if the "classical" is only the Boolean representable part of the
Universe? I am taking this line of reasoning in a different direction not to obfuscate
your point but to try to get you to better understand what I am trying to explain. My
conjecture is that what we call conscious experience is restricted to being Boolean
representable and it is this restriction that is the source of the appearance that our
world is classical.
I don't know what "Boolean representable" means. True/false?
We just happen to be somewhat justified in our belief that "all that exists are
Integers" because we cannot observe the true nature of reality - which is a constant and
total state of superposition.
Sounds like you're taking a theory (QM) to be *the true story of reality* -- something you
Additionally there are some interesting and obsure reasons that come from linear
algebras that disallow for certain operations to occur if the vector spaces of linear
algebras is allowed to be of infinite dimensionality. (see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1zzRX9bnGs&feature=share for more details)
if we are going to implement a simulation of a brain that allows for continuation then
we had better be able to map both the position and the momentum data down to the
substitution level. The problem is that the substitution level is molecular in scale,
we know this because chemical neutransmiters play a vital role in brain behavior.
That doesn't follow. The neurotransmitters are released in quantities such that their
diffusion is well modeled classically. In any case their function is to excite the
synapse, which could be done electrically by an artificial neuron. There is nothing to
indicate that the substitution level must be at the molecule level, much less at the
quantum state of molecules. You are no doubt right that any mapping/reproduction would
introduce a discontinuity in the stream of consciousness; but this isn't an important
objection since a hard blow to the head or some anesthetic does the same thing.
I am only considerign situations where reasonable quantities of "missing time" and
other disorientation are allowable in the continuations. I have no unreasonable
expectations here, I hope. It is just that we have only started to understand how our
3.5 lb of "grey matter" generates our illusion of consciousness so I don't think that
reckless speculations are advisable. Maybe I am being too timid, that quite possible....
The fact that a tiny amount of LSD will totally change your "state of mind" is
sufficient proof of this.
The amount isn't that 'tiny' in terms of the number of molecules.
My point is that the level of substitution has to be at the molecular level.
But it doesn't. Ordinary metabolism changes the molecules over a period of days; so it
must be the structure, which is consistent, not the molecules which change.
Does QM stuff not matter at that level?
Awesome! I am ready to learn. ;-) I am a student after all, just a bit of a smart
ass, but that is just defensive coloring.
You see this is the kind of problems that get completely glossed over in UDA. Many
of you balk that I am making a big deal about physics, but without physics we would
simply not be here to have this conversation.
As a physicist I'm happy to discuss the physics.
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