On 2/17/2012 12:01 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 17 Feb 2012, at 18:57, John Clark wrote:
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 a Craig Weinberg <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> if comp is true, no God is needed. It's just an arithmetic machine.
Even if it's not true God is STILL not needed, that is to say the God hypothesis is of
no help whatsoever in understanding anything; it makes no attempt at explaining HOW God
does things nor does it explain how and why God came to be. All it does is kick
everything we don't understand upstairs and say further investigations into these
matters are off limits. No explanation at all is preferable to a explanation that just
makes things worse and adds a pointless layer of complication. There is no disgrace in
saying in a loud clear voice "I don't know", but counterproductive pseudo-explanations
are a disgrace.
I see you defend the conception of God given by the Christians.
I use the term God in the pre-christian sense of the Platonists. It is basically the
truth we are searching, whatever it is.
If someone's religion is that the ultimate explanation is a physical primitive universe,
then God = that primary physical universe. It remain a God, in the sense that you need
an act of faith to believe in it. (As opposed to the physical reality, primary or not,
that we believe in because we live it).
That God can be shown not exist if comp is true, and the one with the white barb is not
very plausible too.
But, at least for little machine, the notion of arithmetical truth seems to obey many
"reasonable" axiom for God, notably:
- It is responsible for the existence of mind and matter,
- the machine cannot describe it in its own language, yet can conceive
approximation,
- the machine cannot avoid it in any circumstances, but without any means to
prove it.
When atheists asserts that God does not exist, they mean the Christian God does not
exist, and they behave as pseudo-scientist by taking for granted their own God, hiding
the act of faith they are doing in their theories. Comaore to platonism, atheism is a
variety of christianism. They share the God MATTER, and they share the notion of GOD,
even if they disagree on their existence, on which a scientist can only be agnostic.
You seem to think you know a lot about "a-theists".
Brent
Then, even the jewish, muslims and christians are full of theologians having been good
thinkers, and perhaps good experiencer, and having developed reasonable things, despite
the risk to hurt the susceptibility of the local dangerous power who pervert the initial
meaning of the word and questions. I am not even sure that the roman christianism has
any relation with the christianism in between 0 and 500.
In fact those who ridicule theology, are those who confined it in the hand of the
charlatans. That prevents any progress.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/>
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