On 18 Feb 2012, at 21:49, meekerdb wrote:

On 2/18/2012 12:08 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 18 Feb 2012, at 17:57, meekerdb wrote:

On 2/18/2012 2:53 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

but I don't see the point.

The point is to come back to the scientific attitude in the field of theology.

Except the effect is to drag the baggage of the Abrahamic religions into science.

What are your evidences for that. See "Conscience et Mécanisme" and my papers, machine's theology is close to the Abrahamic religion as far as they have succeed to keep the most of Platonism. It is more easy to get arithmetical interpretation of Lao-Tseu, the philosophia perennis (Aldous Huxley) and the platonists than the mainstream part of the confessional religions, except for the sufi and the Kabbalah, which is unfortunately hidden (mainly because those could be considered as heretic). You might be to quick on this. The mainstream religion, including atheists, have adopted Aristotle's metaphysics, not Plato's one.

They've also adopted and defined "God" and "theology", so I think it is foolish to think you can use them in a sense they haven't had in a millenium and not be misunderstood. Assigning private meanings to words, even if they were once public meanings, is no different than inventing words with private meanings - something you've criticised Craig for.

I don't remember having said that to Craig. On the contrary I criticize him for introducing a new word without ever defining it. But "theology" means "Study of Gods" like biology is study of life. It is a simple word that everyone can understand, and using another word would be, for me, like doing the mistake that I attributed to Craig. In the case of theology it is a way of helping people to remind history, and the use is not private. It is the same theology than the Christians, only the methodology differs. And the "results". If you abstract from the Aristotelianism, machines' theology remains much closer to even the Abrahamic theologies than to atheistic naturalism or materialism, which even hides their theological character. Once I asked to the list to suggest another word for "theology" but the propositions were worst. To reject the word "theology" due to its connotation is a bit like abandoning it to the current dogmatic trends in the field. To use another world is like doing a tabula rasa on all the work of the theologians. Experts know well the existence of the neoplatonist theologies, and machine's theology is very close to them, and to all those who have been in trouble working in that field in opposition with the authorities. So I dunno, you might try to suggest another word, but I am not sure you will find one. i like using the word that people know, and you need to be naive to believe that the theology of numbers will pretend that some human is the son of god... From 1970 to 1990, I have use the word "biology". Some peolle criticized the work by saying it was theology, and using that word prevents that easy critics. The I have used the word "psychology", but this lead to more confusion. Both Cantor and Gödel used the word theology i similar settting. Cantor even discussed its transfinite with confessional theologians, and Gödel made implicitly clear that he thought that Theology can be done in the hypothetical non confessional way. Then the use of the term theology, in expression like "machine's theology" makes directly clear that I want to avoid the mechanist antitheological attitude of the early mechanist french rationalist, like Diderot, Sade and LaMettrie.



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