Hello Stephen,

On 31 Mar 2012, at 18:29, Stephen P. King wrote:

On 3/31/2012 3:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Comp is just the assumption that we are machine, to said it shortly. Then it is shown as a consequence that not only we cannot neglect the physical reality, but that we have to retrieve it from arithmetic, without using any probabilistic *selection*. Comp is the problem, not the solution. Only the materialist believe wrongly that comp solves the mind problem, and *they* take matter for granted. Pretending that comp neglects problem is contrary to the facts, because comp just shows precisely where the problems come from (the taking granted of the physical reality).


Dear Bruno,

I wish I could feel comfortable with such a focused area so that we can neglect all other considerations. I agree with your judgement about materialists, but am not so sanguine about the idealist as having all the answers.

Nobody said that the idealist has all answers. If comp is true, he has only all questions, really, so to speak.

What is said is that IF comp is true, then we are necessarily lead to arithmetical (or equivalent) idealism. That's the result.

Idealism is not part of the comp assumption. It is part of the theorem. Comp has to be idealist.

If you belief, for whatever reason, that idealism is false, then COMP is false. You can't survive with a digital, even material, brain, by virtue of a physical computer emulating your brain at some level.

My motivations are different from yours. I am wrestling with the ontological implications of physics and so our interests cross in many places.

Only if comp is part of your theory. I have not yet seen any real, precise, non comp theory, so I cannot judge them.

I have proposed an alternative ontology theory that appears to solve the mind-body problem without having to resort to epiphenomena, which by your own admission infects both materialism and idealism.

You forget many of our discussions. Comp, + the usual Occam, leads to the disappearance of matter. Matter does not become an epiphenomenon, for its observation becomes a psychological or biological or (better imo) theological phenomenon. There are no epiphenomena.

Materialists which are not eliminating consciousness makes often it into an epiphenomenon, because they admit it exists. But comp makes primitive matter into pure and simple non existence. You can reintroduce it logically, and that would make it into an "epinoumenon", like invisible horses driving car, or ether, or phlogistic. That's different.



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