On Apr 2, 3:14 pm, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]> wrote: > On Apr 2, 9:52 am, 1Z <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 14, 6:08 pm, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Mar 14, 12:32 pm, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 3/14/2012 7:21 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 13, 11:15 pm, meekerdb<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> On 3/13/2012 3:00 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > > >>>http://pss.sagepub.com/content/22/5/613.abstract > > > > >>> Abstract > > > > >>> The feeling of being in control of one s own actions is a > > > > >>> strong subjective experience. However, discoveries in psychology and > > > > >>> neuroscience challenge the validity of this experience and suggest > > > > >>> that free will is just an illusion. This raises a question: What > > > > >>> would > > > > >>> happen if people started to disbelieve in free will? Previous > > > > >>> research > > > > >>> has shown that low control beliefs affect performance and > > > > >>> motivation. > > > > >>> Recently, it has been shown that undermining free-will beliefs > > > > >>> influences social behavior. In the study reported here, we > > > > >>> investigated whether undermining beliefs in free will affects brain > > > > >>> correlates of voluntary motor preparation. Our results showed that > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> readiness potential was reduced in individuals induced to disbelieve > > > > >>> in free will. This effect was evident more than 1 s before > > > > >>> participants consciously decided to move, a finding that suggests > > > > >>> that > > > > >>> the manipulation influenced intentional actions at preconscious > > > > >>> stages. Our findings indicate that abstract belief systems might > > > > >>> have > > > > >>> a much more fundamental effect than previously thought. > > > > >>> Has anyone posted this yet? Hard to explain what brain correlates > > > > >>> are > > > > >>> doing responding to an illusion... > > > > >> I think they just rediscovered hypnotism. > > > > > >> Brent > > > > >> "Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills." > > > > >> --- Schopenhauer > > > > > If someone is hypnotized to think that they are eating an apple when > > > > > they are really eating a raw onion, they have to be able to imagine > > > > > what it is like to eat an apple. > > > > > > If someone is hypnotized to think that they have no free will, but > > > > > free will doesn't exist to begin with, why would there be any > > > > > difference to the brain? > > > > > I someone says to you, "You are paralyzed. You can't lift your arm." > > > > and you hear these > > > > words and interpret them how would that happen without any changes in > > > > your brain? > > > > Voluntary movement has to first exist in order for a suggestion of > > > paralysis to be meaningful. > > > "Voluntary" might mean "controlled deterministically by higher brain > > centres". > > The higher brain centers might mean 'us'. We control our own voluntary > movements. To control is to determine. We determine our movements > because we are the phenomenological end of the process to which our > brain is the conjugate. What we want to do is reflected in the > processes of our brain, but the brain has no opinion at all about our > voluntary movements. It is our subjective experience and physiological > process both contribute to who we are and what we do. Neither aspect > makes sense without the other.
None of that makes sense to me. > > > >If all movement was involuntary in the > > > first place then there would be no significant difference between > > > passively watching yourself move and passively watching yourself not > > > move > > > > If we had no free will, our belief about it should have no effect on > > > the actual ability to execute our wishes though our motor cortex. > > > Non sequitur. > > Why? If you program a machine to believe that it has free will, how > would such a belief have any effect on its behavior? It woudl say thins like "yes i do have FW". It might make different deductions about its status as a moral agent. It might say things like "how dare you keep me locked up in this lab, i am a free agent!" > How could it > improve its performance in any way? Dunno. The original claim was "effect", not "Improve". Don't shift the ground. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
