On Apr 30, 12:47 pm, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 29, 201 Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You create the reason to act for many reasons, but you may not be
> > determined by any one of them
>
> So the reason you acted was the reason you created but that is not one of
> the many reasons you acted.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that creating the reason
(reasoning) is not necessarily dependent upon choosing a single
influence to make up your mind. You can choose to create a new reason
and act based on that.

> Well I'm glad you cleared that up and made
> everything crystal clear, for a second there I almost thought you were
> confused.

Trying to explain something that is obvious to someone who chooses to
deny it can be confusing.

>
> > >Your preference can count as much as any other consideration.
>
> You did X rather than Y because you preferred X, and you preferred X for a
> reason OR  you preferred X for no reason, there is no third alternative.

The third alternative is that you cause your own preference for X. You
don't have to have a predetermined preference, you can actually
determine your own preference in real time. We call it 'making up our
minds'.

>
> >> Bullshit.
>
> > >That isn't a rebuttal.
>
> But it's the gospel truth nevertheless.

It can't be. If it were true then I would agree with it.

>
> > > I have no system for writing these words.
>
> Not entirely true. Judging strictly from a semantic viewpoint you have a
> point, it does seem close to random; but you do follow most of the laws of
> English grammar and spelling so there is some system.

There is a system, but it isn't my system. There are systems and
protocols for English, which I comply with semi-consciously, but that
isn't the level of writing I am talking about. I'm not talking about
putting words together, I'm talking about expressing ideas in
sentences.

>
> > I am writing them in real time based on nothing whatsoever other than
> > what makes sense to me at the moment.
>
> So if somebody asks you, as I have done many times, "why did you write
> that" you have a answer for them, perhaps not a good answer, I certainly
> don't think they were good answers, but at least you had a answer, a
> reason, for writing what you did. If you had said "I had absolutely no
> reason for writing what I did, I just wrote it" then you would be admitting
> that what you wrote was unintelligent gibberish and conceding the
> argument.

There are all kinds of answers for 'why did I write that', but none of
them caused me to have to write it. It got written only because I made
up my mind to write it. It was neither determined for me by a pre-
existing reason, nor was it random.

>
> > A Yellow traffic light is not Go and it isn't Stop, but doesn't mean
> > 'don't stop' or 'don't go' either.
>
> The meaning of a yellow light changes according to culture and circumstance
> and is not inherent in the light itself,

Yes. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm giving you a clear
illustration of how there can be a third alternative to stopping or
going but also isn't not stopping or not going. This example is
ordinary and non-trivial and makes my point conclusively.

> but everybody agrees that a yellow
> traffic light is a traffic signal that is yellow,

If you are going to get technical, no, color blind people do not agree
that it is yellow. Infants do not agree that it is a signal.

> and everybody agrees that
> a light, any light at all, is either yellow or it is not yellow, there is
> no third alternative.

There are thousands of shades of yellow, thousands of alternatives.

> A action itself is independent of culture, it either
> happened or it didn't happen and if it did happen it happened for a reason
> or it happen for no reason, there is no third alternative. In English the
> word for things that happen for no reason is "random".

Every culture's language is based on notions of subjective choice.
Every culture on Earth recognizes the fundamental difference between
doing something by choice and doing it involuntarily. I don't see what
your arbitrary denial of this basic and universal human experience
accomplishes.

Craig

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