2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>

> On May 31, 12:26 pm, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On May 31, 1:54 am, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>
> >
> > > > > On May 30, 6:09 pm, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > You are defining a 'real computer' in terms in terms that you
> are
> > > > > > > smuggling in from our real world of physics. In a Church-Turing
> > > > > > > Matrix, why would there be any kind of arbitrary level
> separation?
> > > The
> > > > > > > whole point is that there is no fundamental difference between
> one
> > > > > > > Turing emulation and another. Paris is a program.
> >
> > > > > > A program is running on a machine... a program interact through
> > > interface
> > > > > > and that's the **only** way to interact.
> >
> > > > > Huh? A program interacts with another program directly.
> >
> > > > Yes ? Give me an example, the most basic interface is shared memory
> (and
> > > > eventually, any shared thing is done via memory access)... So give
> me a
> > > > program that can talk/share thing with another program without any
> > > > interface between them...
> >
> > > You brought in the term interface specifically to talk about the
> > > necessity to intentionally bridge two separate layers of reality. To
> > > use a computer, I need a KVM or touchscreen or whatever, an interface
> > > that samples the behavior of physical matter and maps it to
> > > microelectronic settings. I pointed out that in a truly digitial
> > > universe, no such thing would be necessary and nothing would be
> > > prevented by the lack of such a thing.
> >
> > > Once something is native digital, it can be integrated with anything
> > > else that is digital native - that is sort of the point. It's all
> > > virtual. Any formalized virtual interfaces, a KVM in Second Life or
> > > The Matrix or whatever, are purely decorative. They are cartoon
> > > facades. The actual code doesn't need any kind of graphic
> > > representation or digital-to-something-to-digital transduction to pass
> > > from one area of memory to another.
> >
> > > > > There is no
> > > > > interface. It makes no difference to the OS of the HW node whether
> the
> > > > > program is running virtual Paris on the root level of the physical
> > > > > machine or virtual virtual Paris on one of the virtual machines.
> >
> > > > Yes there is a difference, the paris running on a virtual machine
> has no
> > > > direct access (and can't know of it unless an interface exist) on the
> > > > physical hardware.
> >
> > > The virtual machine has the same access to the physical hardware as
> > > the root level.
> >
> > That's complete bullshit... If my emulator does not give you access to
> the
> > host hardware it does not...
>
> I'm not talking about the user having access to the host hardware, I'm
> talking about the virtual machine: the software. It is using the host
> machines's memory and CPUs, is it not?
>
> > The point is that the program running on the
> > emulator *****HAS NO WAY***** to know it does not run on physical
> hardware
> > if no interface is present to give it access to it.
>
> No program has any way of knowing whether it is running on physical
> hardware or not, even if it has an interface. Whether the program is
> running on an emulator or not makes no difference.
>
> >
> > Shared memory ****IS**** an interface. But anyway, I leave this
> discussion
> > here, can't cure your stupidity.
>
> Despite your ad hominem retort, there is no basis for it if you
> understand the points I am making. It is your understanding that is a
> little fuzzy. I am an MCSE and CCEA btw, and I have been configuring
> and managing hundreds of RDP, Citrix, and virtual servers every day
> for over 13 years.


Yes but you still have to learn what a program is... then come back talking.

Quentin

I can assure you that you can break an entire
> hardware node by doing something on one container. Virtual is a
> relative term, it is not literal. The virtual machines are all really
> the same physical computer.
>
> Craig
>
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