2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> > On May 31, 12:26 pm, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote: > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 1:54 am, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > 2012/5/31 Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > On May 30, 6:09 pm, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > You are defining a 'real computer' in terms in terms that you > are > > > > > > > smuggling in from our real world of physics. In a Church-Turing > > > > > > > Matrix, why would there be any kind of arbitrary level > separation? > > > The > > > > > > > whole point is that there is no fundamental difference between > one > > > > > > > Turing emulation and another. Paris is a program. > > > > > > > > A program is running on a machine... a program interact through > > > interface > > > > > > and that's the **only** way to interact. > > > > > > > Huh? A program interacts with another program directly. > > > > > > Yes ? Give me an example, the most basic interface is shared memory > (and > > > > eventually, any shared thing is done via memory access)... So give > me a > > > > program that can talk/share thing with another program without any > > > > interface between them... > > > > > You brought in the term interface specifically to talk about the > > > necessity to intentionally bridge two separate layers of reality. To > > > use a computer, I need a KVM or touchscreen or whatever, an interface > > > that samples the behavior of physical matter and maps it to > > > microelectronic settings. I pointed out that in a truly digitial > > > universe, no such thing would be necessary and nothing would be > > > prevented by the lack of such a thing. > > > > > Once something is native digital, it can be integrated with anything > > > else that is digital native - that is sort of the point. It's all > > > virtual. Any formalized virtual interfaces, a KVM in Second Life or > > > The Matrix or whatever, are purely decorative. They are cartoon > > > facades. The actual code doesn't need any kind of graphic > > > representation or digital-to-something-to-digital transduction to pass > > > from one area of memory to another. > > > > > > > There is no > > > > > interface. It makes no difference to the OS of the HW node whether > the > > > > > program is running virtual Paris on the root level of the physical > > > > > machine or virtual virtual Paris on one of the virtual machines. > > > > > > Yes there is a difference, the paris running on a virtual machine > has no > > > > direct access (and can't know of it unless an interface exist) on the > > > > physical hardware. > > > > > The virtual machine has the same access to the physical hardware as > > > the root level. > > > > That's complete bullshit... If my emulator does not give you access to > the > > host hardware it does not... > > I'm not talking about the user having access to the host hardware, I'm > talking about the virtual machine: the software. It is using the host > machines's memory and CPUs, is it not? > > > The point is that the program running on the > > emulator *****HAS NO WAY***** to know it does not run on physical > hardware > > if no interface is present to give it access to it. > > No program has any way of knowing whether it is running on physical > hardware or not, even if it has an interface. Whether the program is > running on an emulator or not makes no difference. > > > > > Shared memory ****IS**** an interface. But anyway, I leave this > discussion > > here, can't cure your stupidity. > > Despite your ad hominem retort, there is no basis for it if you > understand the points I am making. It is your understanding that is a > little fuzzy. I am an MCSE and CCEA btw, and I have been configuring > and managing hundreds of RDP, Citrix, and virtual servers every day > for over 13 years.
Yes but you still have to learn what a program is... then come back talking. Quentin I can assure you that you can break an entire > hardware node by doing something on one container. Virtual is a > relative term, it is not literal. The virtual machines are all really > the same physical computer. > > Craig > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
