On 12 Jul 2012, at 00:30, John Mikes wrote:

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

Esse is not percipi. With comp. Esse is more "is a solution to a diophantine polynomial equation".
St.:You have merely replaced the Atoms of the materialists with the Numbers of neo-Platonists. :_(
Study UDA and AUDA, it is exactly the contrary. Universal machines, relatively to the arithmetical truth makes the arithmetical reality into tuburlent unknowns. And matter still exists but is no more primitive as being the condition making collection of universal machines sharing part of the sheaves of all local computations.

UDA is an invitation, or challenge to tell me where you think there is a flaw, for UDA is the point that if we can survive with a digital brain, at some levels, then the physical reality is not the source of the reason why we believe in a physical reality. It is a reasoning Stephen, I repeated it recently on the FOAR list, please tell me a number between 0 and 7, or 8, so that we can agree on what we disagree on.

My question is (my) usual: how do you describe EXIST?
In my view whatever passes the mental royeaume DOES indeed exist. Not the physical world, not the "truth" ideas, ANYTHING. You escaped my earlier question about the "Nature" (or whatever anybody may call it/her) - this one is attached to it with your Latin caveat above exposing the questionable 'percipi' what I indeed included as valid for 'esse'.

Percipi might be valid for esse, but esse is not *just* percipi, like in Berkeley statement.

With comp, and the UDA conclusion things are rather clear. We have ontological existence, and this is given by the sandard meaning we can give to existential proposition, like Ex(x is a prime number). the "E" (it exists) is defined by axioms and inference rule. Then you have epistemological existence, which technically are modal variant of "E", like []Ex [] P(x), or similar constuction.

In the moment when the "infinite complexity" - the ever unknowable totality - comes into play, no 3rd c.AD equation can vouch for it with all the unknowable variants/qualia, beyond our 21.c. capabilities - many of them potentially factoring into the outcome of (polynomial, or not) arithmetically fitting equations in known numbers. Mathematics disallows (in number and qualia) unaccountable variants when it comes to equations (with potential solutions).

That depends on the theory. I do assume that an implementation of some computation makes it possible for a consciousness to manifest itself in some relative way. From this math can associate consciousness to what machine or number can discover by looking inward.

Also, when you feel the necesscity to include "arithmetic" with "TRUTH" then you confessed to the partial validity of it.

Why not?

How about the Not (SO?) arithmetic truth? deniable?

Not at all. It exists necessarily. Formal arithmetic is necessarily different from arithmetical truth, which is much vaster than anything believable by any humans, numbers or machines . But machines can know why it has to be like that if they are machines.

Keep in mind that I am working with the comp hypothesis.



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