Let me try to shorten the maze and copy only whatever I want to reflect to.
Sorry if it causes hardship - JM
-------------
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>
>   On 08 Aug 2012, at 23:00, John Mikes wrote:
>
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
On 08 Aug 2012, at 00:18, John Mikes wrote:

>      ....how can a machine (Loebian?) be *curious? or unsatisfied?*
>>
>>
>> Universal machine are confronted with many problems....
>>
> The Löbian machine knows that she is universal, and so can grasp the
preceding paragraph, and get in that way even much more questions, and she
can discover even more sharply her abyssal ignorance. Löbianity is the step
where the universal machine knows that whatever she could know more, that
will only make her more ignorant with respect to the unknown. Yet, the
machine at that stage can also intuit more and more the reason and
necessity of that ignorance, and with comp, study the approximate
mathematical description of parts of it.

>    JM: looks to me that Univ. Mach. is a fictional charater like Alice in
> Wunderland, equipped with whatever you need to make it work. Like (my)
> infinite complexity.
>
> The difference is that once you agree on addition and multiplication, you
> can prove the existence of universal machine, and you can bet that you can
> implement them in the physical reality, as our concrete physical personal
> computer, and cells, brain etc, illustrate.
>
*JM: don't you see the weak point in your *
*            "once you agree"?*
*I don't know what to agree in (agnosticism) so NO PROOF*
*- What our 'cells, brain etc. illustrate' is (our?) figment. *

>
> BM: I think that change is an experience from inside. It follows, I think,
> from the hypothesis that we might survive through a computer emulation (my
> working hypothesis).
>
*JM: If I watch you to put on weight, I am not inside you.*

>     And then there is nothing a universal machine can't be more in love
>> than ... another universal machine. And then the tendency to reproduce and
>> multiply, in many directions, that they inherit from the numbers and which
>> leads to even more complexity and life, I would say.
>>
> The arithmetical reality is full of life, populated by many sorts of
> universal numbers, with many possible sort of relations, and this put a
> sort of mess in the antic Platonia, and leads to transfinite unboundable
> complexity indeed.
>
>>
>> Bruno
>>
> *JM: I don't want to bore you by "where did that obscure "LIFE" come
from? What is it?" and how do you know what a universal (machine? number?)
thinks/feels/wants/kisses? *
*because you are ONE? OK, but not the only kind that may be, - I suppose.
Do you deny that there may be other kinds of universal anythings? what do
THEY love most? *

>    ...But observable is an internal notion. Nobody can observe the
> "Universe", by definition of "Universe". --  --*??? --  ---*
>
>  JM: You may argue that I am still within a larger 'inside'.
> BM: Indeed. You see the point.
>

*JM: but in such case I've changed the perspective and my conclusions are
not comparable. And about 'a' UNIVERSE?*
*In my narrative of a 'Bigbang' story I visualize unlimited number and
quality of universes. Some may be able to observe others. "We" are too
simplistic for that. And - our thinking is adjusted to such simplicity, I
am not proud to say so. Agnostic? Ignorant?*

>
>  You are welcome.
>
> Bruno

>
>
>  http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
>
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