Hi Jason Resch 

You got it right. Descartes never troubled to explain how two completely 
different substances--
mind and body-- could interact. And Leibniz was too hard to understand.
And it was also easy to follow Newton, because bodies acted "as if" they 
transferred energy or momentum.

In Descartes' model, God was external to the mind/body issue, being essentially 
left out.
So using the Descartes model, God (or some Cosmic Mind), who actually did these 
adjustments, 
could be left out of the universe. And mind was then treated as material.

At the time of Descartes and Leibniz, there was a fork in the
road, and science took the more convenient path of Newton and Descartes 
(materialism),
which works quite well if you gloss over the unsolved mind/body problem ---
until you look for a self or a God or a Cosmic Mind. Not there, as in Dennet's 
materialism.

No wonder scientists are mostly atheists, since God doesn't fit into their 
model 
of the universe. While in Leibniz, God is necessary. for the universe


Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/14/2012 
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Jason Resch 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-08-11, 14:53:26
Subject: Re: pre-established harmony


As I understand it, the?eibniz's?ational for advocating the pre-established 
harmony idea was Newton's discovery of conservation of momentum. ?escartes knew 
that energy was conserved, but not momentum. ?his would have permitted a 
non-physical mind to alter the trajectories of particles in the mind so long as 
the speed of the particles remained unchanged. ?ewton's revelation however was 
that in order for the motion of one particle to be changed, another physical 
particle must have an equal and opposite change in momentum. ?his does not 
permit a non physical force to change the motion of particles, and hence 
Leibniz concluded that the mental world does not affect the physical word, or 
vice versa. ?ather, they were made to agree beforehand (you might think of it 
as a bunch of souls watching a pre-recorded movie of the physical world, but 
this pre-recorded movie also agrees with the intentions of the souls watching 
it).


In Monadology, published in 1714, Leibniz wrote ?escartes recognized that souls 
cannot impart any force to bodies, because there is always the same quantity of 
force in matter. Nevertheless he was of opinion that the soul could change the 
direction of bodies. But that is because in his time it was not known that 
there is a law of nature which affirms also the conservation of the same total 
direction in matter. Had Descartes noticed this he would have come upon my 
system of pre-established harmony.?
Jason


On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 6:37 AM, Roger <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:

Hi Stephen P. King 
?
As I understand it, Leibniz's pre-established harmony is analogous to
a musical score with God, or at least some super-intelligence, as 
composer/conductor.
?
This prevents all physical particles from colliding, instead they
all move harmoniously together*. The score was composed before the
Big Bang-- my own explanation is like Mozart God or that intelligence
could hear the whole (symphony) beforehand in his head.
?
I suppose that this accords with Leibniz's?elief that God,
whoc is good, constructed the?est possible world where
as a miniomum, that least physics is obeyed.? Hence
Voltaire's ?oolish criticism of Leibniz in Candide that how 
could? the volcanic or earthquake disaster in Lisbon be
part of the most perfect world ?
?
Thus, because physics must be obeyed, sometimes crap happens.
?
* As a related and possibly explanatory?oint, L's universe
completely is nonlocal. 
?
Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/11/2012 
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Stephen P. King 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-08-11, 01:56:41
Subject: Re: Where's the agent ? Who or what does stuff and is aware of stuff ?


Hi Roger,

?? I have noticed and read your posts. Might you write some remarks about 
Leibniz' concept of pre-established harmony?


On 8/10/2012 8:53 AM, Roger wrote:

Hence I follow Leibniz, even though he's difficult and some say
contradictory. That agent or soul or self you have is your
monad, the only (alhough indirectly) perceiving/acting/feeling
agent in all of us, but currently missing in neuroscience and
neurophilosophy.



-- 
Onward!

Stephen

"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed." 
~ Francis Bacon
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