On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 18 Aug 2012, at 17:55, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 15 Aug 2012, at 14:46, Roger wrote:
>>
>> But humans are not entirely governed from outside, they have their own
>> agendas.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have a top level agenda: maximise self-satisfaction, and minimize
>> self-dissatisfaction. This can be programmed in very few lines, but needs a
>> very long time to bring sophisticated being like us.
>>
>>
> But doesn't concept or computation of "self" makes this statement on
> self's agenda much less clear than it looks?
>
> Is "self" some conceptual cartoon or program, like individual isolated
> humanist "bag-of-flesh + brain soup", a consumer in a market with bank
> account, a career, set of personal experiences, a class idea, is it a
> tribal idea, or is it some esoteric notion of "Gaian world soul", a family
> notion etc.?
>
>
> It is more like a control structure. The self is really defined by the
> ability of some program to refer to their own code, even in the course of a
> computation, like an amoeba can build another similar amoeba. Or like when
> you look into a mirror and recognize yourself. It is the third person self,
> like in "I have two legs". Then the math shows that a non nameable deeper
> self is attached with it, and obeys a different logic (the soul).
>
> Satisfying oneself, in nature, is mainly drinking when thirsty, eating
> when hungry, mating, peeing, etc.
> But with its big neocortex, the man has made things more complex. By
> incompleteness (or akin) he is never fully satisfied, want more, get
> addicted, refer to authorities, and then to forget how happiness is easy.
>
>
>
Convincing, but I am less sure. Particularly because 1p perspective has
apparently many selves (the list I mentioned: "bag of flesh, consumer,
career, family, citizen etc.") and the distinction between "self" and
"other" is subject to transformation. Sometimes boundaries are
insurmountable and sometimes they vanish. Time influences this perhaps.

But according to you, building on incompleteness, if we forget/ignore Gödel
and comp enough, happiness is easier :) This is not good marketing.

m




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