This sentence does not speak English.

These words do not ‘refer’ to themselves.

sɹǝʇʇǝl uǝʌǝ ʇ,uǝɹɐ ǝsǝɥʇ


If you don't like Searle's example, perhaps the above can help illustrate 
that form is not inherently informative.

The implication here for me is that comp is a red herring as far as 
ascertaining the origin of awareness. 

Either we view computation inherently having awareness as a meaningless 
epiphenomenal byproduct (yay, no free will), or we presume that computation 
can and does exist independently of all awareness but that a particular 
category of meta-computation is what we call awareness.

Even with the allowances that Bruno includes (or my understanding of what 
Bruno includes) in the form of first person indeterminacy and/or non comp 
contents, Platonic number dreams, etc - all of these can only negatively 
assert the completeness of arithmetic truth. My understanding is that Gödel 
(and others) are used to support this negative assertion, and I of course 
agree that indeed it is impossible for any arithmetic system to be 
complete, especially in the sense of defining itself completely. I suspect 
that Bruno assumes that I don't have a deep enough understanding of this, 
but I think that what understanding I do have is enough to persuade me that 
this entire line of investigation is a dead end as far as explaining 
consciousness. It only works if we assume consciousness as a possibility a 
priori and independently of any arithmetic logic.

Nowhere do I find in any AI/AGI theory any positive assertion of awareness. 
It is not enough to say **that** awareness fits into this or that category 
of programmatic interiority or logically necessary indeterminacy when the 
question of *what* awareness is in the first place and *why* is has not 
been addressed at all.

As I demonstrate in the three lines at the top, and Searle tried to 
demonstrate, awareness does not follow automatically from a negative 
assertion of computability. I bring up the example of cymatics on another 
thread. Scooping salt into a symmetrical-mandala pattern does not conjure 
up an acoustic vibration associated with that pattern. Qualia does not 
follow from quanta.

Quanta, however, could and I think does follow from qualia as a method of 
sequestering experiences to different degrees of privacy while retaining 
shared sense on more primitive 'public' levels. These methods would 
necessarily be construed as automatic to insulate crosstalk between 
channels of sense - to encourage the coherence of perceptual inertial 
frames to develop unique significance rather than to decohere into the 
entropy of the totality.

Does anyone have any positive assertion of consciousness derived from 
either physics or arithmetic? Any need for actual feelings and experiences, 
for direct participation?

Craig


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