People and science do not distinguish enough between smoking pure cannabis
or hemp and smoking both cannabis and tobacco.

The latter carries many more health concerns than the former.

Also the causality: does cannabis lead to depression or is a life framed
for depression at some point, and Cannabis is abused to hide, like alcohol
or heroin etc.?

Lester Grinspoon from Harvard sees smoking pure Cannabis as an "enhancer or
amplifier" of existing circumstances and traits of user. If a life is
lacking direction, where will cannabis lead? And if a life has direction,
why would Cannabis undermine this?

I don't think you can equate personal experience with effect of Cannabis.
The logic is crap because of causality problem. Richard Branson recently
asked for weed in the White House: "they didn't have any..."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/74111.html

This does not look like a depressed man, respecting your 15 years
experience.

Regards,
Mark

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> 2012/8/29 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
>
>>
>> On 29 Aug 2012, at 12:37, Richard Ruquist wrote:
>>
>> I am of the opinion that recreational drugs should be the preserve of the
>> retired folk.
>> In fact in the USA with so many companies and the govt/military doing
>> random testing
>> you may as well wait until retirement.
>>
>>
>> I don't believe in drugs.
>>
>> A "drug" is just a product made illegal so that we can sell it 100 times
>> its price, without quality controls, and by targetting mainly the kids,
>> everywhere.
>>
>> There are no drug problem, only a prohibition problem.
>>
>> Drug addiction is nowadays easy to cure, with plant like salvia, or
>> iboga, or even cannabis, which typically are not drugs, even if cannabis
>> can lead some people to some habituation (but still not as grave as TV
>> habituation).
>>
>
> No, canabis can lead to real problematic addiction, grave depression, and
> *is not* a drug to take lightly. You should not go the other way around as
> the lies you are fighting and thus lie yourself.
>
> I've smoked cannabis for 15 years I know what I'm talking about and what
> problem it can cause. I'm not smoking anymore and hope I never will. I'm
> against prohibition, I'm for prevention and good usage. But you must know
> that "good" usage is not for everyone and a lot of persons will abuse it
> and abuse is problematic, occulting that is a lie.
>
>
>>
>> The case of cannabis is different for cannabis is just hemp, the plant
>> that we have cultivated the most on this planet, and it has been made
>> illegal just because it was a natural competitor to oil and forest. There
>> is a big amount of literature on this, and the fact that cannabis is still
>> illegal is a frightening witnessing that most governement are hostage of
>> criminals.
>>
>> We know since 1974 that cannabis cures cancer, (american discovery hidden
>> by Bush senior) but it is only since this has been rediscovered in Spain,
>> that some media talk about it, but it does not yet make the headline.
>>
>
> Well do you have reference of that ? And since cannabis as I was using it
> consisted of smocking it, let me have a lot of doubts about that.
>
> Regards,
> Quentin
>
>
>> How many people died of cancer since? I can give you tuns of references
>> and links on this, but the same lies continue.
>>
>> The two most dangerous recreative "drug" are alcohol and tobacco. The
>> bandits have tried to prohibit alcohol, but prohibition multiply a lot the
>> dangerousness of the product, so they have to stop it. So now they make
>> illegal innocuous product like cannabis, so this can last. The illegality
>> of cannabis is a coup de genie. It deserves the Nobel prize in Crime.
>>
>> And prohibition leads to new drugs which copy the one forbidden, like
>> "wood-alcohol, or brew" when alcohol was prohibited. In Russia they have
>> made a severe campaign against heroin, and the result is the apparition of
>> krokodil, a very nasty, highly addictive substance, which make you die in
>> terrible pain.
>> In my country, to prevent the spreading of AIDS, they have unofficially
>> legalize heroin: the result has been a drastic diminution of heroin
>> consumption.
>>
>> Prohibition is the problem, not "drugs". Black money is the problem, and
>> worse, grey money, the investment of balck money in mundane finance, which
>> is making the whole middle class, and the banks, into the hostage of the
>> drugs mafia. Prohibition transforms the planet into a big Chicago.
>>
>> And I was used to separate the "war on drugs" from the "war on terror",
>> but since Obama signed the NDAA bill, I am changing my mind on this. I
>> begin to think that the war on terror is as fake as the war on drugs. Pure
>> fear selling business.
>>
>> But thanks for the retired folk, Richard.
>> Now, I can hardly imagine that a bar will ask your identity cart for a
>> beer, and refuses because you are 74 years old: "sorry, but you are to much
>> young, wait for "growing up"" a little bit :)
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 2:45 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>>
>>> Even Binet, who invented the IQ-tests, insisted that it can be used only
>>> to separate debility and sanity, not to measure small differences. The
>>> paper is mute on the most difficult part to assess, like such a difference.
>>> I am not sure such comparision must be itself compared with other "drug",
>>> like making similar tests, assuminf they makes sense, which I doubt. How
>>> evolve the IQ of people looking everyday at TV, and "sober" people, or
>>> alcoholic?
>>> To be sure I have not yet found the most typical error in statistics in
>>> that field, so that paper might be less wrong than usual, but still not
>>> very convincing, especially in the conclusion. The policy does not make
>>> sense, especially that we are systematically dis-informed about the real
>>> outcomes of basically all medication/drugs, and this will last as long as
>>> people will accept the nonsensical prohibition (of food and drug) laws,
>>> something known to be anticonstitutional in the US since the start. So my
>>> first feeling on that paper: crap.
>>>
>>> Bruno
>>>
>>> On 28 Aug 2012, at 15:09, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:
>>>
>>> Finally we have the whole story and truth:
>>>
>>> Direct link to PDF in question:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Finfam.antville.org%2Ffiles%2Fpnas%2F&ei=A7o8UNPENsil0AWCh4CAAg&usg=AFQjCNEnTJj8p7H1m6w40c3PXKIOgjQgQA
>>>
>>> Link to abstract:
>>>
>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/08/22/1206820109.abstract
>>>
>>> Thank God Lewis Carroll, Victor Hugo and Alexander Dumas; such jazz
>>> greats as Louis Armstrong, Cab Calloway, Duke Ellington and Gene Krupa; and
>>> the pattern continues right up to modern-day artists and musicians such as
>>> the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the Eagles, the Doobie Brothers, Bob
>>> Marley, Jefferson Airplane, Willie Nelson, Buddy RIch, Country Joe & the
>>> Fish, Joe Walsh, David Carradine, David Bowie, Iggy Pop, Lola Falana,
>>> Hunter S. Thompson, Peter Tosh, the Grateful Dead, Cypress Hill, Sinead
>>> O'Connor, Black Crowes, etc.
>>>
>>> Of course, smoking marijuana only enhances creativity for some and not
>>> for others. But so glad to have proof, that they all had to pay for their
>>> sins in terms of neuropsychological decline.
>>>
>>> It makes you dumb. Science has spoken. Dumb, lazy pot smokers
>>> under-performing in IQ-Tests. Nothing beats long-term evidence and a sample
>>> size of 1000.
>>>
>>> :) Good science.
>>>
>>>
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>>>  http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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>>>
>>>
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