That's what I'm saying. You can have ideal consciousness without space. On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 7:56:36 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: > > Hi Craig Weinberg > > The experience of time is called consciousness, the simplest kind. > > > Roger Clough, [email protected] <javascript:> > 9/4/2012 > Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him > so that everything could function." > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > *From:* Craig Weinberg <javascript:> > *Receiver:* everything-list <javascript:> > *Time:* 2012-09-04, 00:48:59 > *Subject:* Re: Personally I call the Platonic realm "anything > inextended".Anything outside of spacetime. > > > On Monday, September 3, 2012 8:33:34 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: >> >> Hi Craig Weinberg >> >> Personally I call the Platonic realm "anything inextended". >> Time necessarily drops out if space drops out. >> > > I see the opposite. If space drops out, all you have is time. I can count > to 10 in my mind without invoking any experience of space. I can listen to > music for hours without conjuring any spatial dimensionality. I think that > space is the orthogonal reflection of experience, and that time, is that > reflection (space) reflected again back into experience a spatially > conditioned a posteriori reification of experience. > > Craig > > >> >> Roger Clough, [email protected] >> 9/3/2012 >> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him >> so that everything could function." >> >> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >> *From:* Craig Weinberg >> *Receiver:* everything-list >> *Time:* 2012-08-31, 16:32:54 >> *Subject:* Re: Re: Technological (Machine) Thinking and Lived Being >> (Erlebnis) >> >> >> >> On Friday, August 31, 2012 5:53:24 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: >>> >>> Hi Craig Weinberg >>> >>> You're on the right track, but everybody from Plato on >>> says that the Platonic world is timeless, eternal. >>> And nonextended or spaceless (nonlocal). >>> Leibniz's world of monads satisfies these requirements. >>> >>> But there is more, there is the Supreme Monad, which >>> experiences all. And IS the All. >>> >>> >> >> Hegel and Spinoza have the Totality, Kabbala has Ein Sof, There's the >> Tao, Jung's collective unconscious, there's Om, Brahman, Logos, Urgrund, >> Urbild, first potency, ground of being, the Absolute, synthetic a prori, >> etc. >> >> I call it the Totality-Singularity or just "Everythingness". It's what >> there is when we aren't existing as a spatiotemporally partitioned subset. >> It is by definition nonlocal and a-temporal as there is nothing to >> constrain its access to all experiences. >> >> Craig >> >> >>> Roger Clough, [email protected] >>> 8/31/2012 >>> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him >>> so that everything could function." >>> >>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >>> *From:* Craig Weinberg >>> *Receiver:* everything-list >>> *Time:* 2012-08-30, 13:53:09 >>> *Subject:* Re: Technological (Machine) Thinking and Lived Being >>> (Erlebnis) >>> >>> I think that the Platonic realm is just time, and that time is nothing >>> but experience. >>> >>> Thought is the experience of generating hypothetical experience. >>> >>> The mistake is presuming that because we perceive exterior realism as a >>> topology of bodies that the ground of being must be defined in those terms. >>> In fact, the very experience you are having right now - with your eyes >>> closed or half asleep...this is a concretely and physically real part of >>> the universe, it just isn't experienced as objects in space because you are >>> the subject of the experience. If anything, the outside world is a Platonic >>> realm of geometric perspectives and rational expectations. Interior realism >>> is private time travel and eidetic fugues; metaphor, irony, anticipations, >>> etc. Not only Platonic, but Chthonic. Thought doesn't come from a realm, >>> realms come from thought. >>> >>> Craig >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, August 30, 2012 11:54:32 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: >>>> >>>> What is thinking ? Parmenides thought that thinking and being are >>>> one, which IMHO I agree with. >>>> >>>> Thoughts come to us from the Platonic realm, which I personally, >>>> perhaps mistakenly, >>>> >>>> associate with what would be Penrose's incomputable realm. >>>> Here is a brief discussion of technological or machine thinking vs >>>> lived experience. >>>> http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/ref/10.1080/00201740310002398#tabModule >>>> IMHO >>>> Because computers cannot have lived experience, they cannot think. >>>> Inquiry: >>>> An Interdisciplinary Journal of Philosophy Volume >>>> 46<http://www.tandfonline.com/loi/sinq20?open=46#vol_46>, >>>> Issue 3 <http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/sinq20/46/3>, 2003 >>>> >>>> Thinking and Being: Heidegger and Wittgenstein on Machination and >>>> Lived-Experience >>>> Version of record first published: 05 Nov 2010 >>>> >>>> Heidegger's treatment of 'machination' in the Beitr锟� e zur Philosophie >>>> begins the critique of technological thinking that would centrally >>>> characterize his later work. Unlike later discussions of technology, the >>>> critique of machination in Beitr锟�e connects its arising to the >>>> predominance of 'lived-experience' ( Erlebnis ) as the concealed basis for >>>> the possibility of a pre-delineated, rule-based metaphysical understanding >>>> of the world. In this essay I explore this connection. The unity of >>>> machination and lived-experience becomes intelligible when both are traced >>>> to their common root in the primordial Greek attitude of techne , >>>> originally a basic attitude of wondering knowledge of nature. But with >>>> this >>>> common root revealed, the basic connection between machination and >>>> lived-experience also emerges as an important development of one of the >>>> deepest guiding thoughts of the Western philosophical tradition: the >>>> Parmenidean assertion of the sameness of being and thinking. In the >>>> Beitr锟�e 's analysis of machination and lived-experience, Heidegger hopes >>>> to discover a way of thinking that avoids the Western tradition's constant >>>> basic assumption of self-identity, an assumption which culminates in the >>>> modern picture of the autonomous, self-identical subject aggressively set >>>> over against a pre-delineated world of objects in a relationship of mutual >>>> confrontation. In the final section, I investigate an important and >>>> illuminating parallel to Heidegger's result: the consideration of the >>>> relationship between experience and technological ways of thinking that >>>> forms the basis of the late Wittgenstein's famous rule-following >>>> considerations. >>>> everything-list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Roger Clough, [email protected] >>>> 8/30/2012 >>>> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so >>>> everything could function." >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/WEvmwMTgZdoJ. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/FR6988TpGPsJ. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/Up3mOfKio5AJ. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] <javascript:>. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > >
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