That's what I'm saying. You can have ideal consciousness without space.

On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 7:56:36 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
>
>  Hi Craig Weinberg 
>  
> The experience of time is called consciousness, the simplest kind.
>  
>  
> Roger Clough, rcl...@verizon.net <javascript:>
> 9/4/2012 
> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
> so that everything could function."
>
> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
> *From:* Craig Weinberg <javascript:> 
> *Receiver:* everything-list <javascript:> 
> *Time:* 2012-09-04, 00:48:59
> *Subject:* Re: Personally I call the Platonic realm "anything 
> inextended".Anything outside of spacetime.
>
>  
> On Monday, September 3, 2012 8:33:34 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: 
>>
>>  Hi Craig Weinberg 
>>  
>> Personally I call the Platonic realm "anything inextended".
>> Time necessarily drops out if space drops out.
>>
>
> I see the opposite. If space drops out, all you have is time. I can count 
> to 10 in my mind without invoking any experience of space. I can listen to 
> music for hours without conjuring any spatial dimensionality. I think that 
> space is the orthogonal reflection of experience, and that time, is that 
> reflection (space) reflected again back into experience a spatially 
> conditioned a posteriori reification of experience.
>
> Craig
>  
>
>>   
>> Roger Clough, rcl...@verizon.net
>> 9/3/2012 
>> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
>> so that everything could function."
>>
>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
>> *From:* Craig Weinberg 
>> *Receiver:* everything-list 
>> *Time:* 2012-08-31, 16:32:54
>> *Subject:* Re: Re: Technological (Machine) Thinking and Lived Being 
>> (Erlebnis)
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Friday, August 31, 2012 5:53:24 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: 
>>>
>>>  Hi Craig Weinberg 
>>>  
>>> You're on the right track, but everybody from Plato on 
>>> says that the Platonic world is timeless, eternal.
>>> And nonextended or spaceless (nonlocal).
>>> Leibniz's world of monads satisfies these requirements.
>>>  
>>> But there is more, there is the Supreme  Monad, which
>>> experiences all. And IS the All.
>>>  
>>>
>>
>> Hegel and Spinoza have the Totality, Kabbala has Ein Sof, There's the 
>> Tao, Jung's collective unconscious, there's Om, Brahman, Logos, Urgrund, 
>> Urbild, first potency, ground of being, the Absolute, synthetic a prori, 
>> etc. 
>>
>> I call it the Totality-Singularity or just "Everythingness". It's what 
>> there is when we aren't existing as a spatiotemporally partitioned subset. 
>> It is by definition nonlocal and a-temporal as there is nothing to 
>> constrain its access to all experiences.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>   
>>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
>>> 8/31/2012 
>>> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
>>> so that everything could function."
>>>
>>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
>>> *From:* Craig Weinberg 
>>> *Receiver:* everything-list 
>>> *Time:* 2012-08-30, 13:53:09
>>> *Subject:* Re: Technological (Machine) Thinking and Lived Being 
>>> (Erlebnis)
>>>
>>>  I think that the Platonic realm is just time, and that time is nothing 
>>> but experience.
>>>
>>> Thought is the experience of generating hypothetical experience.
>>>
>>> The mistake is presuming that because we perceive exterior realism as a 
>>> topology of bodies that the ground of being must be defined in those terms. 
>>> In fact, the very experience you are having right now - with your eyes 
>>> closed or half asleep...this is a concretely and physically real part of 
>>> the universe, it just isn't experienced as objects in space because you are 
>>> the subject of the experience. If anything, the outside world is a Platonic 
>>> realm of geometric perspectives and rational expectations. Interior realism 
>>> is private time travel and eidetic fugues; metaphor, irony, anticipations, 
>>> etc. Not only Platonic, but Chthonic. Thought doesn't come from a realm, 
>>> realms come from thought.
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 30, 2012 11:54:32 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: 
>>>>
>>>>      What is thinking ? Parmenides thought that thinking and being are 
>>>> one, which IMHO I agree with. 
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts come to us from the Platonic realm, which I personally, 
>>>> perhaps mistakenly, 
>>>>
>>>> associate with what would be Penrose's incomputable realm. 
>>>> Here is a brief discussion of technological or machine thinking vs 
>>>> lived experience. 
>>>> http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/ref/10.1080/00201740310002398#tabModule 
>>>> IMHO 
>>>> Because computers cannot have lived experience, they cannot think. 
>>>> Inquiry: 
>>>> An Interdisciplinary Journal of Philosophy Volume 
>>>> 46<http://www.tandfonline.com/loi/sinq20?open=46#vol_46>, 
>>>> Issue 3 <http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/sinq20/46/3>, 2003 
>>>>   
>>>>  Thinking and Being: Heidegger and Wittgenstein on Machination and 
>>>> Lived-Experience
>>>>  Version of record first published: 05 Nov 2010
>>>>      
>>>> Heidegger's treatment of 'machination' in the Beitr锟� e zur Philosophie 
>>>> begins the critique of technological thinking that would centrally 
>>>> characterize his later work. Unlike later discussions of technology, the 
>>>> critique of machination in Beitr锟�e connects its arising to the 
>>>> predominance of 'lived-experience' ( Erlebnis ) as the concealed basis for 
>>>> the possibility of a pre-delineated, rule-based metaphysical understanding 
>>>> of the world. In this essay I explore this connection. The unity of 
>>>> machination and lived-experience becomes intelligible when both are traced 
>>>> to their common root in the primordial Greek attitude of techne , 
>>>> originally a basic attitude of wondering knowledge of nature. But with 
>>>> this 
>>>> common root revealed, the basic connection between machination and 
>>>> lived-experience also emerges as an important development of one of the 
>>>> deepest guiding thoughts of the Western philosophical tradition: the 
>>>> Parmenidean assertion of the sameness of being and thinking. In the 
>>>> Beitr锟�e 's analysis of machination and lived-experience, Heidegger hopes 
>>>> to discover a way of thinking that avoids the Western tradition's constant 
>>>> basic assumption of self-identity, an assumption which culminates in the 
>>>> modern picture of the autonomous, self-identical subject aggressively set 
>>>> over against a pre-delineated world of objects in a relationship of mutual 
>>>> confrontation. In the final section, I investigate an important and 
>>>> illuminating parallel to Heidegger's result: the consideration of the 
>>>> relationship between experience and technological ways of thinking that 
>>>> forms the basis of the late Wittgenstein's famous rule-following 
>>>> considerations.
>>>> everything-list
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  Roger Clough, rcl...@verizon.net
>>>> 8/30/2012 
>>>> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so 
>>>> everything could function."
>>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "Everything List" group.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/WEvmwMTgZdoJ.
>>> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>>> everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at 
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
>>>
>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Everything List" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/FR6988TpGPsJ.
>> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
>>
>> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/Up3mOfKio5AJ.
> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> everything-li...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/Gh1rzyxA10QJ.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.

Reply via email to