On 10/16/2012 4:19 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 10/16/2012 12:41 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 10/16/2012 2:42 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 10/16/2012 7:44 AM, Stephen P. King wrote:
OK, I am officially confused by your statements. You previously
wrote: "Magic emergence from magic enough complexity has been
advocated for almost anything." and now you suggest that
consciousness is contingent on a level of evolution, ala: "... in
this stage of evolution a form of consciousness becomes a necessity".
How is this not an argument for emergence from complexity? What
is evolution other than a mechanism in Nature to generate
increasing stable complex structures in the physical universe?
Either consciousness is an irreducible primitive or it is not?
I agree that complexity *is* involved when we consider issues
such as "reportablity" of consciousness, but the property of
"having a subjective experience of being in the world" itself can
be strongly argued to flow at the most basic level that allows
If there are no inputs from the world to perceive, e.g. a person in
a sensory deprivation tank, or the 'perceptions' are very simple
interactions, e.g. an orbital electron scattering a photon what will
be the content of this subjective experience?
How so? Do we humans have "orbital electron scattering" of
photons as actual experiential content?
No, but Craig thinks electrons do.
So do I, it is very primitive, but present. The reasoning is
simple, there must be something that it is like to be an electron. My
belief in this follows from my agreement with panprotopsychism and
explained in David Chalmers book /The Conscious Mind/. I don't have time
to defend the idea now, but you might read Chalmers book and decide for
It seems to me that all talk of "orbital electron scattering a
photon" that is an abstract narrative that we talk to each other
about and use to make predictions of phenomena that is within our
sphere of mutual non-contradiction.
Sure, the 3p story is one we create to explain intersubjective
agreement about 1p experience. But my point is that consciousness is
not basic, otherwise it wouldn't need external stimuli to avoid
Who claims that it needs to avoid endless loops? In fact, endless
looping is required! At our level, we need external stimuli just to stay
coherent with each other. Consciousness is, on its own, solipsistic and
thus lost in its "hall of mirrors". Interactions are a break in this
symmetry of ME ME ME ME ME ME....
Our knowledge of physical laws, like all content of experience is 1p
that could be defined as 3p iff possible.
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