Hi Bruno Marchal  

1) OK, so particles don't need a probe to be created from the wave ?
What's different about consciousness ?

2) If comp or materialism could work, I'd be happy.
But they'd have to be able to handle the self specifically,
not just imply it.

Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 

----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Bruno Marchal  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-10-24, 07:31:35 
Subject: Re: wave function collapse 

On 23 Oct 2012, at 14:50, Roger Clough wrote: 

Hi meekerdb  

There are a number of theories to explain the collapse of the quantum wave 
(see below).  

1) In subjective theories, the collapse is attributed 
to consciousness (presumably of the intent or decision to make 
a measurement).  

This leads to ... solipsism. See the work of Abner Shimony.  

2) In objective or decoherence theories, some physical 
event (such as using a probe to make a measurement)  
in itself causes decoherence of the wave function. To me, 
this is the simplest and most sensible answer (Occam's Razor). 

This is inconsistent with quantum mechanics. It forces some devices into NOT 
obeying QM. 

3) There is also the many-worlds interpretation, in which collapse 
of the wave is avoided by creating an entire universe. 
This sounds like overkill to me. 

This is just the result of applying QM to the couple "observer + observed". It 
is the literal reading of QM. 

So I vote for decoherence of the wave by a probe. 

You have to abandon QM, then, and not just QM, but comp too (which can only 
please you, I guess). 



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