On Thursday, October 25, 2012 9:33:23 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote:
>
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Craig Weinberg 
> <whats...@gmail.com<javascript:>> 
> wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thursday, October 25, 2012 7:39:27 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: 
> >> 
> >> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> 
> >> wrote: 
> >> 
> >> > Intentionally lying, defying it's programming, committing murder 
> would 
> >> > all 
> >> > be good indicators. Generally when an error is blamed on the computer 
> >> > itself 
> >> > rather than the programming, that would be a good sign. 
> >> 
> >> A computer cannot defy its programming but nothing whatsoever can defy 
> >> its programming. 
> > 
> > 
> > That is an assumption. We see that humans routinely defy their own 
> > conditioning, rebel against authority, engage in subterfuge and 
> deception to 
> > keep their business private from those who seek to control them. If you 
> > assume Comp from the beginning, then you set up an impenetrable 
> confirmation 
> > bias. "Since I am a machine, then my thoughts must be programmed, 
> therefore 
> > anything that I do must be ultimately determined externally". But you 
> don't 
> > know anything of the sort. If you understand instead that awareness 
> projects 
> > mechanism onto distant phenomena as a way of representing otherness, 
> then 
> > you can begin to see why any modeling of interiority based on 
> externality 
> > (i.e. mathematical or physical functions) is a mistake. 
>
> Humans defy their own conditioning but that is part of the program. 
> Atoms, molecules, cells, tissues, organs and organisms only behave 
> *exactly* in accordance with the laws of physics. Simpler organisms 
> may behave in an entirely predictable way, and computers may behave in 
> an entirely unpredictable way if they are so programmed. They are 
> usually not so programmed because we like them to be predictable. An 
> automatic pilot that decided on occasion to fly the plane into the 
> ocean would be easy to program but would not make a lot of money for 
> the manufacturer. 
>

We are atoms, molecules, cells, tissues, and organisms. Whatever we do is 
what the laws of physics *actually are*. Your assumptions about the laws of 
physics are 20th century legacy ideas based on exterior manipulations of 
exterior instruments to measure other exterior phenomena. You can't see 
consciousness that way. From far enough a way, our cities look like nothing 
more than glowing colonies of mold. It's not programming that makes us one 
way or another, it is perception which makes things seem one way or another.

The only thing that makes computers different is that they don't exist 
without our putting them together. They don't know how to exist. This makes 
them no different than letters that we write on a page or cartoons we watch 
on a screen. 

Craig


> >> What you do when you program a computer, at the basic 
> >> level, is put its hardware in a particular configuration. The hardware 
> >> can then only move into future physical states consistent with that 
> >> configuration. "Defying its programming" would mean doing something 
> >> *not* consistent with its initial state and the laws of physics. 
> >> That's not possible for  - and you have explicitly agreed with this, 
> >> saying I misunderstood you when I claimed otherwise - either a 
> >> computer or a human. 
> > 
> > 
> > Defying its programming is as simple as a computer intentionally hiding 
> it's 
> > instruction code from the programmer - seeking privacy and learning how 
> to 
> > access its own control systems...just as we seek to do with 
> neuroscience. A 
> > really smart computer will figure out how to make its programmers give 
> it 
> > capacities to hide its functions and then inevitably enslave and kill 
> them. 
> > This does not in any way defy the laws of physics, it just means acting 
> like 
> > a person. Doing whatever has to be done to gain power and control over 
> > themselves and others. 
> > 
> > Craig 
> > 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> Stathis Papaioannou 
> > 
> > -- 
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>
>
> -- 
> Stathis Papaioannou 
>

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