Hi Roger Clough,


My understanding is that qualia are subjective or 1-view,
while the realm of science is completely objective (3-view).

I agree. A qualia, like the feeling of being convinced, or like the feeling of seeing the color red, is subjective (1p).

But now the theory saying that a qualia is 1p, might very well be objective.

Science cannot use subjective statements in a theory, but this does not prevent a theory to make statements on subjectivity.

If not, you would make a confusion between a level and a meta-level.
We can develop objective and even testable statements about subjectivity.

For example, with comp, we can decode an 1p-dream from a brain 3p- analysis.
This seems to have been partially tested:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=scientists-read-dreams&WT.mc_id=SA_WR_20121024

Bruno




Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
11/6/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen


----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-11-06, 08:49:43
Subject: Re: Weyl on mathematics vs. reality


On 05 Nov 2012, at 20:03, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi meekerdb

Love is a qualia and science cannot touch qualia.

Science can touch everything. And assuming comp science can explain
why qualia are not scientific or communicable. they still remain real
phenomena on which science can say something, even if negative.

Bruno





Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
11/5/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen


----- Receiving the following content -----
From: meekerdb
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-11-03, 21:28:12
Subject: Re: Weyl on mathematics vs. reality


On 11/3/2012 6:47 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:



: Is there something that I could know to be the case, and which is
not expressed by a proposition that could be part of some scientific
theory?"


Yes . "I love my mother" is some knowledge that I know , and is not
part of a scientific theory.


But could it be is the question. There could be a scientific theory
that Alberto Corona loves his mother and you could know the theory.



We know reality because we live in the reality, We do not
approximate reality by theories. We directly know reality because we
live within it. Our primary knowledge is intuitive, historic,
direct.. It is _the_ reality.


A theory is a second class of knowledge about a model that
approximate reality, maybe upto a point of an isomorphism with some-
part-of reality, but certainly, not an isomorphism that embraces the
whole reality, because we could never know if we have modelized the
entire reality, nether if this modelization is accurate.


The legitimate usage of the models is to refine this intuitive
knowledge. But at the worst, a model can negate our direct
knowledge and try to create an alternative reality. In this case the
theorist reclaim the model as the reality. Thus the
theorist .reclaim a complete knowledge of reality. In this case the
theorist is outside of science, even if it is within the science
industry, and becomes a sort of gnostic preacher


Yes, a model that includes everything is impossible (and not even
useful), but it might still be that each thing you know is part of
some model.

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