Hi Bruno Marchal 

Perhaps no leap of faith is required to
go from completeness to incompleteness (consciousness),

if subject = 1p= the incomplete portion of a system

consciousness = subject + object
consciousness = the incomplete (me,  1p) + what remains (the object of 
perception)



Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
11/9/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 


----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-11-08, 10:25:01 
Subject: Re: Leibniz: Reality as Dust 


On 08 Nov 2012, at 14:51, Richard Ruquist wrote: 

> Stephan, 
> If the compact manifolds of string theory are all different and 
> distinct (as I claim in my paper from observations of a variable fine 
> structure constant across the universe), then the manifolds should 
> form a Stone space if each manifold instantly maps all the others into 
> itself, my (BEC physics) conjecture, but also a Buddhist belief- 
> Indra's Pearls. 
> 
> If so, youall may be working on implications of string theory- like 
> consciousness. 
> 
> However, in my paper I claim that a 'leap of faith' is necessary to go 
> from incompleteness to consciousness (C). Would you agree? Bruno says 
> C emerges naturally from comp. 

More precisely, I say that consciousness and matter emerges from 
elementary arithmetic, *once* you bet on comp, that is the idea that 
the brain or the body can be Turing emulated at some right level so 
that you would remain conscious. 

Bruno 


> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- 
> From: Stephen P. King 
> Date: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 7:54 AM 
> Subject: Re: Leibniz: Reality as Dust 
> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
> 
> 
> On 11/8/2012 6:19 AM, Roger Clough wrote: 
> 
> Hi Stephen P. King 
> 
> Time and space don't exist as substances so 
> they don't influence the monads, which as you say 
> are eternal. Further, there is no "substance space". 
> So the monads are not organized in any way. 
> The monads can be thought of as a collection 
> of an infinite number of mathematical points. 
> 
>> From dust we come and to dust we shall return. 
> 
> 
> Hi Roger, 
> 
> The absolute disconnection of the monads is what makes them a 
> 'dust'. This is exactly what is a Stone space - the dual to a Boolean 
> algebra. ;-) The idea is that any one monad has as its image of other 
> monads the vision of a mathematical point. This fits the idea of that 
> the classical universe is "atoms in a void" as taught by Democritus. 
> http://www.scottaaronson.com/democritus/lec1.html 
> 
> What Craig and I are proposing is to add time to this idea. The 
> evolution of the dust from one configuration to another is the arrow 
> of time. Switching to the dual, we see teh evolution of Boolean 
> algebras, whose arrow is the entailment of one state by all previous 
> states. These two arrows face in opposite directions 
> 
> ... A => A' Stone space 
> | | 
> ....A*<=A*' Boolean algebra 
> 
> The duals aspects of each monad evolve in opposite directions. 
> 
> 
> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
> 11/8/2012 
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 
> 
> 
> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
> From: Stephen P. King 
> Receiver: everything-list 
> Time: 2012-11-07, 19:01:19 
> Subject: Re: Communicability 
> 
> 
> On 11/7/2012 11:48 AM, Roger Clough wrote: 
> 
> Hi Stephen P. King 
> 
> That sounds like Leibniz. Each monad contains the 
> views of all of the other monads in order to see 
> the whole, not from just one perspective. 
> 
> Hi Roger, 
> 
> Yes, and that is why I like the idea of a Monad. I just don't 
> agree 
> with Leibniz' theory of how they are organized. Leibniz demanded that 
> their organization is imposed ab initio, he assumed that there is a 
> special beginning of time. I see the monads as eternal, never created 
> nor destroyed, and their mutual relationships are merely the 
> co-occurence of their perspectives. This makes God's creativity to 
> be an 
> eternal action and not a special one time action. 
> 
> 
> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
> 11/7/2012 
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 
> 
> 
> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
> From: Stephen P. King 
> Receiver: everything-list 
> Time: 2012-11-06, 18:17:30 
> Subject: Re: Communicability 
> 
> 
> On 11/6/2012 11:11 AM, Roger Clough wrote: 
> 
> What happens if I mistake a statue of a beautiful woman 
> for the real thing, thus turning, eg, a statue of pygmalion into an 
> actual woman ? 
> 
> Or mistake fool's gold or gold foiled chocolates 
> for actual gold coins ? 
> 
> Does the world actually become cloudy if I have cataracts ? 
> 
> It is not just about you. It is about the huge number of observers. 
> What 
> matters is that they can communicate with each other and mutually 
> confirm what is "real". Why do you imagine that only humans can be 
> observers? 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Onward! 
> 
> Stephen 
> 
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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ 



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