Hi Telmo,

I accidentally sent the previous email before 
I was done, sorry. Please consider this more complete version
of the intended whole:

Hi Telmo,

Those images in the videoclips, while still remarkable, 
probably were constructed simply by monitoring
sensory MRI signals just as one might from a video camera,  
and displaying them as a raster pattern, artificially 
converting the time voltage signal into a timespace signal. 

Perception of the moving image from a given perspective
by the brain might take place in the following way :

1) FIRSTNESS (The eye). The initial operation in processing the 
raw optical signal is reception of the sensory signal.
This is necessarily done by a monad (you or me), 
because only monads see the world from a given 
perspective. This is not a visual display, only  a
complex sensory signal. 

2) SECONDNESS (the hippocampus ? the cerebellum? ). 
The next stage is intelligent processing of the
optical signal and into a useable expreswion of
the visual image. 
 
(From the monadology, we find that each monad 
(you or me) does not  perceive the world directly, 
but is given such a perception by the supreme monad 
(the One, or God). This supreme monad contains 
the ability to intelligently construct the visual image
from the optical nerve signal) 

3) THIRDNESS (cerebrum ?) Knowing this visual expresson
by the individual monad according to its individual perspective. 
This perspective is somehow coordinated with motor muscles (left/right,
etc.), but I question that this is an actual 2D or 3D "display,"
such as in the videoclips. (The videoclips are another matter
as they are artificialy constructed.) 

If there is an actual or simulated display then we are
faced with Dennett's problem: the infinite regress of 
spectators, spectators of spectator, etc.

But if there is no display, we do not need an observer self,
and are possibly ending up with Michael Dennett's materialist 
concept of the self. This might be called epi-phenominalism.
The self is simply an expression of the brain.

I do not at present know the answer.




[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/19/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Roger Clough 
Receiver: Roger Clough 
Time: 2012-12-19, 07:45:31
Subject: On those remarkable videoclips of visual perception


Hi Telmo,

Those images in  the videoclips, while still remarkable, 
might have  beer constructed simply by monitoring,
just as one might from a video camera, the MRI signals 
in the optical nerve as a function of time, and displaying 
them as a raster pattern, which turns the time voltage signal
artificially into a timespace signal. 

Obviously the brain achieves the same result, but
I find it hard to believe that it convergts the time signal
into a timespace signal using a raster pattern display.



[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/19/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Roger Clough 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-12-18, 10:53:11
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: I am my memory, which is provided by my 1p.


Hi Telmo Menezes 

Thank you so much ! What an achievement !
Hard to believe. 


[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/18/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Telmo Menezes 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-12-18, 03:34:31
Subject: Re: Re: Re: I am my memory, which is provided by my 1p.


Hi Roger,



Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nsjDnYxJ0bo



On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:

Hi Telmo Menezes 
?
It would be good if they showed a video clip.
?
?
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/17/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
?
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Telmo Menezes 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-12-17, 11:12:16
Subject: Re: Re: I am my memory, which is provided by my 1p.


Hi again Roger, 


It's a bit better than that. A machine learning algorithm is trained to decode 
neural activation signals. The training is performed by showing the subject 
known images, and letting the algorithm learn how their neural activity maps to 
these images.


The real magic happens when you show them new stuff, that the algorithm wasn't 
trained for. To me, the most impressive stuff here is when it fails. If you pay 
attention to the videos, you will see the algorithm decoding different (but 
similar images) from what the one being shown to the subject. For example, when 
faces are shown, different faces are decoded and then start correcting. My 
speculation is that we are actually seing visual memories conjured by the brain 
in its pattern matching attempts. My favorite is the ink blot exploding, where 
you can see the brain anticipating the explosion, so you get to see a visual of 
the subject imagining a likely future state.



On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:

Hi Telmo Menezes

I think that is a misleading article. If it's fMRI, you
don't see the riginal video clip as an eye would see it,
you see an image of brain activity.


[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/17/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Telmo Menezes
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-12-11, 11:04:13
Subject: Re: I am my memory, which is provided by my 1p.






My
memory is the identity of my 1p and is what my 1p sees.

This is perhaps the most serioous problem of comp.



Frankly .... I can understand people not convinced that a computer can have a 
quale associated to the memory, but memory and personal memory does not pose 
any problem in computers. Then I have explained why they have a quale too.




This is not even theoretical anymore. Here's a rather compelling example of 
visual information in human brains being uploaded into a computer:


http://gizmodo.com/5843117/scientists-reconstruct-video-clips-from-brain-activity?
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