On 19 Dec 2012, at 20:30, meekerdb wrote:
On 12/19/2012 8:34 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi meekerdb and Stephen,
If information is stored in quantum form,
I can't see why the number of particles
in the universe can be a limiting fsactor.
Information has to be instantiated in matter (unless you're a
Platonist like Bruno). No particles, no excited field modes -> no
information.
You mean: unless you are a mechanist. Platonism in the greek sense is
a consequence. And arithmetical realism is what you need to understand
the mathematical notion of computation, Church thesis, etc. Not
"mathematical platonism".
Bruno
Also there are ways of storing information
holographically, so size gets a bit ambiguous.
The holographic principle says that the information that can be
instantiated in spherical must be less than the area of the bounding
surface in Planck units. So there's a definite bound. If we looks
at the average information density in the universe (which is
dominated by low energy photons from the CMB) and ask at what radius
does the spherical volume times the density equal the holographic
limit for that volume based on the surface area we find it is on the
order of the Hubble radius, i.e. the radius at which things are
receding at light speed. This suggests the expansion rate of the
universe and and gravity are entropic phenomena.
Brent
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/19/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: meekerdb
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-12-18, 16:44:29
Subject: Re: the only truth we can understand is a man-made object
On 12/18/2012 1:12 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
We have many entities that are available to agree that 2+2=4
(for all sizes of 2 and 4 that we can find), 2^90 entities at
least! Every particle that exist in our universe that can hold a
bit of data and all possible combinations of them that agree on
some "laws of physics".
I've only been able to communicate with a few of what I call 'human
beings'. All those particle are inferences that I and the other
'human beings' have put in our model of the world to explain the
'facts' on which we have intersubjectively agreed. In our model,
the particles don't have opinions. In fact the whole idea of
particle is something which has very few properties and hence is
completely understandable (wouldn't be much point in making a
theory out of pieces you don't understand).
Brent
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