Hi meekerdb 

Can be is not the same as is.


[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/20/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: meekerdb 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-12-19, 14:30:29
Subject: Re: the only truth we can understand is a man-made object




On 12/19/2012 8:34 AM, Roger Clough wrote: 
Hi meekerdb and Stephen,

If information is stored in quantum form,
I can't see why the number of particles
in the universe can be a limiting fsactor.

Information has to be instantiated in matter (unless you're a Platonist like 
Bruno).  No particles, no excited field modes -> no information.


Also there are ways of storing information
holographically, so size gets a bit ambiguous.    


The holographic principle says that the information that can be instantiated in 
spherical must be less than the area of the bounding surface in Planck units.  
So there's a definite bound.  If we looks at the average information density in 
the universe (which is dominated by low energy photons from the CMB) and ask at 
what radius does the spherical volume times the density equal the holographic 
limit for that volume based on the surface area we find it is on the order of 
the Hubble radius, i.e. the radius at which things are receding at light speed. 
 This suggests the expansion rate of the universe and and gravity are entropic 
phenomena.

Brent






[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/19/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: meekerdb 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-12-18, 16:44:29
Subject: Re: the only truth we can understand is a man-made object


On 12/18/2012 1:12 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: 
    We have many entities that are available to agree that 2+2=4 (for all sizes 
of 2 and 4 that we can find), 2^90 entities at least! Every particle that exist 
in our universe that can hold a bit of data and all possible combinations of 
them that agree on some "laws of physics".

I've only been able to communicate with a few of what I call 'human beings'.  
All those particle are inferences that I and the other 'human beings' have put 
in our model of the world to explain the 'facts' on which we have 
intersubjectively agreed.  In our model, the particles don't have opinions.  In 
fact the whole idea of particle is something which has very few properties and 
hence is completely understandable (wouldn't be much point in making a theory 
out of pieces you don't understand).

Brent

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