On 08 Jan 2013, at 21:25, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
Le me add some meat here
We can not reduce the concept of God to a boring principle that we
need to put somewhere. Like a ugly furniture inherited from the
grand-parents which for its sentimental value we have to keep and
locate somewhere, so that the familly visits show that you are a
well educated and respectful person. God is like the refligerator.
if you drop the old one, you need another. Why? because religion -or
an extended notion of religion and divinity- is deeply embedded in
human nature. An objective study of God includes an explanation of
the subjective reality or the resulting description is incomplete.
if the reality is overall, mental and divinity a neccesity, then the
divinity is part of reality
For reasons that I detail below, God must be the absolute source of
meaning in all aspects. therefore it embodies the causation and
direction of what is "physical" as well as what is mental, personal
or moral and any else. Therefore, for the believer, God must be
personal, among other things, or else, the believer lacks a
foundation for the aspects that God does not includes.
As I tried to show in robotic Truth, religion is a neccesity for the
operation of social beings.
For all machines, actually. Even when isolated. the "robotic truth"
can be approached by introspection when the machine complexity is
above the Löbian threshold.
If there is no agreed meaning, that is, goals, there is no
inequivocal rules for social action. if there are no inequivocal
rules for social coordination, descoordination and internal
decomposition of the group follows. For that matter religion is the
core social instinct. it is as deeply embedded in social nature as
is other unique human traits, like the white in the eyes, another
social adaptation (facilitates the reading of the emotional states
and intentions of others).
Probably the first religion was a cult of the person of the recently
dead leader of the tribe that was an example and a guide to all the
other members by emulation. That's why by history and by neccesity a
god, must be personal .
A society with a impersonal Principle is full of smalller personal
gods in conflict, sometimes violent. Philosophers, Demagoges,
scientis, rock stars, Soccer clubs. This politheism becomes salient
and agressive when there is no personal God, or, at least, no Cesar
or Zeus that make clear who is the ultimate authority. A dialectic
materialist society need a Lenin and a Stalin because its impersonal
Principle is not personal. The abstract and incognoscible Allah need
a ruthless political Mahoma.
The cult to the blood, the leader and the territory. These are the
almost mathematically inexorable traits of the primitive tribal
religion that we have by default in the genes. In the origin, the
cult to the leader, the public rites, The bloody sacrifices, All are
devoted to strengthen coordination and ensure collaboration, and
mutual recognition between the members. And the sharp distinction
between us and the others.
A membrane separates the entity from the outside and defines an
living unit that perdures in time, be it a cell or a society, in the
latter case, the membrane is created by religion, the physical
territory and the blood ties. In this sense, primitive religion may
be exigent, very exigent and dangerous. The bloody mesoamerican
religions, which grew unchallenged during centuries, with his
pyramids of skulls illustrate how a primitive religion evolves in
itself when not absorbed or conquered by a superior civilization.
Hmm...
That´s why the belief in a all transcendent God that created all men
at its image and dignity and incarnated in a person, Christ to
imitate, is the best use of this unavoidable and necessary part of
us called religion. In this sense, Christianity free us from the
obedience to the dictatorial earthly leaders, the bloody sacrifices,
the cult to the lebensraung (vital space) of the tribe , or the
supertribe, with its psycopathic treatment to "the others".
Because nihilism is unbearable except as a self-steem booster by
means of a self-exhibition of strength for a certain time, as the
young russians did in the early XX century. If hihilism would not
be painful it would not be a matter of exhibition. Sooner or later
the nihilist has to choose between the suicide, that has a perfect
evolutionary sense, since someone isolated, with no guide to help
others in society is a social burden, and suicide is the social
apoptosis, by means of which the social body re-absorb the useless.
Or else the , guided by its simple instints and devoid of the
experience and traditions of the past, and therefore with no vaccine
for the recurrent errors of humanity, the unbeliever will reinvent
again and again the primitive cults to the earth the tiranic leader
and the blood. Of course with the fashionable decorations of our
time; Probably some eco-globalist-aborto-eugenesist cult with a
greath leader that would suspend our rights, for the good of
humanity and the planet, of course.
I agree partially. But the Christian have politicized religion, where
the greeks have succeeded in making it into a science, and today we
have not yet come back to the scientific attitude in those matter.
There is a strong resistance from fundamentalist atheists, more
numerous than I thought possible. European atheism seems different
than american atheism (which is often just agnosticism).
Bruno
2013/1/8 John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>
wrote:
>Whoever invented the word "God" invented atheism.
Yes, I agree with that, one clearly had to come before the other.
Before some human invented God there was no need for another human
to invent atheism.
John K Clark
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