On 01 Feb 2013, at 19:26, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Bruno,

I can't see that superposition of states is any more magical
in one universe than, say, multiple roots to an equation, or imaginary
numbers. What matters is whether they are true states or not.
And truth is not magical.

Agreed.
But truth becomes magical when you require that a true state has to be a physical state.

There are numbers, and just by virtue of obeying the laws of addition and multiplication, due to an intrinsic misunderstanding between the additive realm and the multiplicative realm, universal numbers cannot not exist and they introduced an incredible mess in platonia.

I agree that the superposition of states is no more magical than the many roots of an equation.

Bt there is a difference, which is that if comp is true, what we take as physical, both the particles and their superposition states, comes from an earlier (arithmetically earlier, with shorter proofs) from the fact that each first person determined by a relative universal numbers states, is associated to all computations going through that states.

So particles and their superposition are entirely phenomenal, but in stable and sharable fashion, apparently, for the "measure-winning" universal numbers.

A brain is a Hubble telescope, in arithmetic, to explore the unboundable richness of arithmetic when seen from inside, from many possible perspectives.

We must be humble. Today, as far as we "know", assuming comp, the physical universe might still be only a failed attempt by God to solve a fourth degree diophantine polynomials. But OK, the resemblance with Plotinus' system suggests it can also be more than that.

There are tuns of open problems. The weakness of comp, is that the interesting question, using the simplest definitions, leads to very hard problem in math. But the contrary would have been astonishing. There is no reason that the theological reality is "simple", especially with a brain which seems to filter a part of the truth, for apparently both logical and evolution based "reason". And there is an abyss of complexity between those two kind of reasons.

Bruno






----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Telmo Menezes
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-02-01, 03:46:32
Subject: Re: multiverses and quantum computers

Hi Bruno,


On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

On 31 Jan 2013, at 15:15, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Telmo Menezes
 
Perhaps you're right, but to my limited knowledge,
a quantum has infinite paths available between
points A and B without invoking another universe.

Once we are able to use (classical) information obtained in the other quantum paths, like when doing a Fourier transform on  some superposition of many computations, like in a quantum computer, what makes them different of other universes?

The superposition of many computations itself. Superposition of states on a same universe are a bit hard to swallow. I think people reject the idea of a multiverse because it sounds loony, but my understanding is that making QM consistent with a single universe requires magical thinking. It's the same as saying that consciousness emerges from neural activity. People overlook the magical step because they are more confortable with the resulting model. 
 

Bruno



So no problem.
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Telmo Menezes
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-31, 08:13:30
Subject: Re: Re: About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in Space

Hi Roger,

In the one universe model, where does the extra computational power of quantum computers come from?


On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Telmo Menezes
 
IMHO more than one universe is unjustified.
 
 
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Telmo Menezes
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-30, 12:10:08
Subject: Re: About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in Space

Hi Roger,

I find it harder to believe in finite universes. Why the precise number, whatever it is?


On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Stephen P. King
It's easier to believe in salvation through faith or UFOs than infinite universes.
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Stephen P. King
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-28, 09:20:33
Subject: About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in Space

Hi,

牋 I think this paper might be fodder for a nice discussion!


http://arxiv.org/abs/1301.5295

About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in Space

Francisco Jos Soler Gil, Manuel Alfonseca
(Submitted on 22 Jan 2013 (v1), last revised 23 Jan 2013 (this version, v2)) This paper analyzes two different proposals, one by Ellis and Brundrit, based on classical relativistic cosmology, the other by Garriga and Vilenkin, based on the DH interpretation of quantum mechanics, both of which conclude that, in an infinite universe, planets and living beings must be repeated an infinite number of times. We point to some possible shortcomings in the arguments of these authors. We conclude that the idea of an infinite repetition of histories in space cannot be considered strictly speaking a consequence of current physics and cosmology. Such ideas should be seen rather as examples of {\guillemotleft}ironic science{\guillemotright} in the terminology of John Horgan.

--
Onward!

Stephen
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