On 04 Feb 2013, at 23:21, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
On 02 Feb 2013, at 11:28, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
On 01 Feb 2013, at 09:46, Telmo Menezes wrote:
Hi Bruno,
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
On 31 Jan 2013, at 15:15, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Telmo Menezes
Perhaps you're right, but to my limited knowledge,
a quantum has infinite paths available between
points A and B without invoking another universe.
Once we are able to use (classical) information obtained in the
other quantum paths, like when doing a Fourier transform on some
superposition of many computations, like in a quantum computer,
what makes them different of other universes?
The superposition of many computations itself. Superposition of
states on a same universe are a bit hard to swallow. I think
people reject the idea of a multiverse because it sounds loony,
but my understanding is that making QM consistent with a single
universe requires magical thinking.
OK.
It's the same as saying that consciousness emerges from neural
activity. People overlook the magical step because they are more
confortable with the resulting model.
Totally OK. UDA and MGA are supposed to make that magic step quite
palatable.
But UDA and MGA propose that consciousness supervenes on neural
states, not that it emerges or is caused by them, correct?
UDA (including MGA = step 8) shows that comp (I can survive a
digital brain transplant) entails that eventually the brains and
bodies supervene on sequences of computational states, which are
actually arithmetical relation. (having chosen arithmetic for the
ontology, anything Turing universal theorey will do).
MGA throws out the physical supervenience thesis: the idea that
consciousness relies on this or that (physical or not)
implementations of a computations. Consciousness is associated to
all computation in arithmetic. This can be related with the first
person indeterminacy.
Ok, I'm more familiar with the UDA than the MGA.
If you are interested, I will come back on this soon. Perhaps not on
this list(*).
I will tell here when I will come back on MGA on the FOAR list.
(*) MGA has already been discussed on this list:
http://old.nabble.com/MGA-1-td20566948.html
Bruno
Bruno
Naturalism used magic without saying, but our brains is gifted for
this, and that makes sense in the evolutive struggle of life.
I think we agree,
Bruno
Bruno
So no problem.
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Telmo Menezes
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-31, 08:13:30
Subject: Re: Re: About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in
Space
Hi Roger,
In the one universe model, where does the extra computational
power of quantum computers come from?
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Roger Clough
<rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Telmo Menezes
IMHO more than one universe is unjustified.
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Telmo Menezes
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-30, 12:10:08
Subject: Re: About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in Space
Hi Roger,
I find it harder to believe in finite universes. Why the precise
number, whatever it is?
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Roger Clough
<rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Stephen P. King
It's easier to believe in salvation through faith or UFOs than
infinite universes.
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Stephen P. King
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-28, 09:20:33
Subject: About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in Space
Hi,
牋 I think this paper might be fodder for a nice discussion!
http://arxiv.org/abs/1301.5295
About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in Space
Francisco Jos Soler Gil, Manuel Alfonseca
(Submitted on 22 Jan 2013 (v1), last revised 23 Jan 2013 (this
version, v2))
This paper analyzes two different proposals, one by Ellis and
Brundrit, based on classical relativistic cosmology, the other by
Garriga and Vilenkin, based on the DH interpretation of quantum
mechanics, both of which conclude that, in an infinite universe,
planets and living beings must be repeated an infinite number of
times. We point to some possible shortcomings in the arguments of
these authors. We conclude that the idea of an infinite
repetition of histories in space cannot be considered strictly
speaking a consequence of current physics and cosmology. Such
ideas should be seen rather as examples of {\guillemotleft}ironic
science{\guillemotright} in the terminology of John Horgan.
--
Onward!
Stephen
____________________________________________________________________
DreamMail - The first mail software supporting source tracking www.dreammail.org
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-
l...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-
l...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.