On Monday, February 4, 2013 3:09:16 PM UTC-5, Alberto G.Corona wrote:

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> but there is a self reference when we try to imagine how the brain or a > computer process geometry, and we imagine them embedded in the space and > time that they create, which is not a correct intuition. we must imagine it > in no time and no space. IMHO. > That's what I think too, geometry without space isn't geometry, so that there is no reason to assume that mathematics produces geometric presentations, or that it could possibly produce them. If we want mathematics to occupy space, we have to pull that possibility out of thin air, as well as the capacity for numbers to suddenly do that (and why would they need to?) Craig > > 2013/2/4 Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com <javascript:>> > >> >> >> On Monday, February 4, 2013 12:01:38 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 01 Feb 2013, at 22:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: >>> >>> I have mentioned this before, but it keeps haunting me. >>> >>> If geometry did not exist. >>> >>> Could you invent it with mathematics alone? >>> >>> And if you could do that... >>> >>> Why would you? >>> >>> For instance: A triangle can be defined mathematically in different >>> ways, but without the inherently geometric presentations of lines and >>> angles, it seems that all you could generate is a description of a set of >>> values which have the same relation as the values which would be present if >>> a geometric shape were measured or sampled from optical or tactile >>> detections. >>> >>> That is not to say that the list of mathematical definitions which >>> satisfy triangularity (a^2 + b^2 = c^2 for example), even an exhaustive >>> list, would suggest anything like the visible presence of a shape. All of >>> the mathematics can be done completely in the dark, and no realism of >>> points, plots, displays, manifolds, topologies, etc, ever need to literally >>> appear to anything. >>> >>> >>> We don't know that. >>> >> >> We don't know that we don't know that. >> >> Craig >> >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> >>> >>> So why do they? >>> >>> Craig >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-li...@**googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.**com. >>> >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >>> . >>> For more options, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~**marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > > > -- > Alberto. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.