On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 9:55:45 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 05 Feb 2013, at 11:19, Simon Forman wrote: > > On Monday, February 4, 2013 12:22:53 PM UTC-8, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, February 4, 2013 3:09:16 PM UTC-5, Alberto G.Corona wrote: >> >> >>> but there is a self reference when we try to imagine how the brain or a >>> computer process geometry, and we imagine them embedded in the space and >>> time that they create, which is not a correct intuition. we must imagine it >>> in no time and no space. IMHO. >>> >> >> That's what I think too, geometry without space isn't geometry, so that >> there is no reason to assume that mathematics produces geometric >> presentations, or that it could possibly produce them. If we want >> mathematics to occupy space, we have to pull that possibility out of thin >> air, as well as the capacity for numbers to suddenly do that (and why would >> they need to?) >> >> Craig >> >> > > Doesn't the quantum physical reality of information mean that all math > *is* geometry? > > Put another way, math without a substratum would be in some platonic > world, and not the real one, > > > How do you know that? See the paper below(*) for an argument showing that > if we are machine, then the physical reality is *only* emergent from > arithmetic. Moon and stars are coherent "number's dream", and this can be > tested. So if you want a material substratum, you need to assume that you > and your brain are not Turing emulable. > > (*) > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/publications/SANE2004MARCHALAbstract.html >
I'm just talking about geometric presentations though. If we accept that Moon and stars are coherent "number's dreams", then why are they not presented that way, but instead, as a-signifying shape relations? Where does the shapeness come from? Craig > > Bruno > > so aren't you basically asking if there's some way to do math without form? > > Forgive me if I'm being an idoit. ;) > > ~Simon > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
