On 06 Feb 2013, at 17:50, Craig Weinberg wrote:

On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 9:55:45 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Feb 2013, at 11:19, Simon Forman wrote:On Monday, February 4, 2013 12:22:53 PM UTC-8, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, February 4, 2013 3:09:16 PM UTC-5, Alberto G.Corona wrote:but there is a self reference when we try to imagine how the brainor a computer process geometry, and we imagine them embedded in thespace and time that they create, which is not a correct intuition.we must imagine it in no time and no space. IMHO.That's what I think too, geometry without space isn't geometry, sothat there is no reason to assume that mathematics producesgeometric presentations, or that it could possibly produce them. Ifwe want mathematics to occupy space, we have to pull thatpossibility out of thin air, as well as the capacity for numbers tosuddenly do that (and why would they need to?)CraigDoesn't the quantum physical reality of information mean that allmath *is* geometry?Put another way, math without a substratum would be in someplatonic world, and not the real one,How do you know that? See the paper below(*) for an argument showingthat if we are machine, then the physical reality is *only* emergentfrom arithmetic. Moon and stars are coherent "number's dream", andthis can be tested. So if you want a material substratum, you needto assume that you and your brain are not Turing emulable.(*) http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/publications/SANE2004MARCHALAbstract.htmlI'm just talking about geometric presentations though. If we acceptthat Moon and stars are coherent "number's dreams", then why arethey not presented that way, but instead, as a-signifying shaperelations? Where does the shapeness come from?

`Moon and stars are not not numbers dreams, but image appearing *in*`

`the content of those dreams. The shapeness is easy to explain from the`

`number relations and number self-reference, as I illustrate with some`

`details.`

Bruno

Craig Brunoso aren't you basically asking if there's some way to do mathwithout form?Forgive me if I'm being an idoit. ;) ~Simon --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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