On Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:15:21 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>
> On 08 Feb 2013, at 21:38, meekerdb wrote:
>
>  On 2/8/2013 12:31 AM, Kim Jones wrote: 
>
> Which is a profound problem that we can lay right at the door of LANGUAGE. 
> Language is indeed a self-serving thing. A description of something is a 
> dance of language, not a dance of PERCEPTION. Perception is often throttled 
> by the processes of language. We need to move beyond words. This is the 
> importance of math and music (which is audible math IMO.)
>
>
> That seems contradictory.  Mathematics is very restricted language - 
> declaratory sentences, logically consistent. 
>
>
> Mathematics is not a language at all. You might be confusing mathematics 
> and the theories used to put some light on some mathematical reality. 
>

Then Spanish and French and Italian aren't languages either. People might 
confuse them with the linguistic theories used to put some light on some 
semiotic reality.

 

> Also most mathematicians don't care so much about logical consistency. 
> That notion is studied by logicians, but with few incidence on the doing of 
> mathematicians. Logic is just another branch of math, with its own purpose. 
> It can have application in math, or not.
>

What branches of math contain no logic?

 

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>
>
> It seems to be an interesting fact that all information can be encoded in 
> binary numbers, but that is the antithesis of you view that the form of 
> representation, painting, dance, music matters in an essential way.
>
>
> The content of the information is usually not encoded, in any form. The 
> mathematical study of that content can be done with some tools in logic, or 
> computare science (with the UM building the meaning), but again, we have to 
> distinguish the content (usually infinite) and the syntactical tools to 
> point on it. 
>

Since we can only infer the content through the tools, how can we assume 
that it exists independently of them?


> Math is as different from language than the physical universe is different 
> from a book in cosmology.
>

The referents of math are different from the referents of other specialized 
languages, but that doesn't mean that it is different from other languages. 
The referents of mathematics are no more infinite than those of art, 
literature, poetry, etc.

Craig
  

>
> Bruno
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> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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