On 10 Feb 2013, at 22:01, Craig Weinberg wrote:

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On Sunday, February 10, 2013 10:41:23 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Feb 2013, at 15:14, Craig Weinberg wrote:On Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:15:21 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Feb 2013, at 21:38, meekerdb wrote:On 2/8/2013 12:31 AM, Kim Jones wrote:Which is a profound problem that we can lay right at the door ofLANGUAGE. Language is indeed a self-serving thing. A descriptionof something is a dance of language, not a dance of PERCEPTION.Perception is often throttled by the processes of language. Weneed to move beyond words. This is the importance of math andmusic (which is audible math IMO.)That seems contradictory. Mathematics is very restricted language- declaratory sentences, logically consistent.Mathematics is not a language at all. You might be confusingmathematics and the theories used to put some light on somemathematical reality.Then Spanish and French and Italian aren't languages either. Peoplemight confuse them with the linguistic theories used to put somelight on some semiotic reality.Not at all. Spanish and French and Italian are languages. Theydefine strings of symbols, having meaning, which can be on somesubject matter, but they are different from the subject matter.Only non-mathematician confuse the mathematical language (thatexists too) and the mathematic subject matter (number, geometricalshapes, algebras, mathematical structures, etc.).That just makes a straw man of non-mathematical language. Theromance language subject matter (description, instruction, nouns,articles, adjectives, literary structures, etc) are also not limitedto their immediate syntax. I never said that math referred only toit's own expression, but neither does any language.

`Good, that's my point. Math is not language, it is the object of study`

`of mathematicians, which of course will use some languages to talk`

`about their subject matter.`

Bruno

Also most mathematicians don't care so much about logicalconsistency. That notion is studied by logicians, but with fewincidence on the doing of mathematicians. Logic is just anotherbranch of math, with its own purpose. It can have application inmath, or not.What branches of math contain no logic?What branches of anything does not contain logic?Color, flavor, pain, pleasure, love, imagination, feeling,intuition, etc.

`That are no branches. And those notions can involve this or that`

`logics, depending on the theories we assume.`

Everyday life is full of logic.But it isn't necessarily full of math (as tribes like the PirahÃ£reveal).

`The tribes of pirahÃ£ have no problem with math. They use the math`

`they need, as everyone else.`

Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.