On 3/8/2013 12:37 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
Hi Stephen,

According with my definition the information depends both on the message and the state of the autonomous entity.
Hi Alberto,

    Thank you for your comments!


An autonomous Turing machine (call it robot) can and maybe sould have anticipatory reactions, for example stress or depression.

I agree, these are internal anticipatory conditions/reactions. This implies an internal model of the ATM that predicts the possible future state of the ATM.

The former to find a solution for a problem as early as possible, the latter to conserve energy resources.

    These are, ultimately, the same problem.

The use of the information received depends on his previous information, including his decoding software.

Yes, there is a target rich field in this area for exploitable concepts and application.

But that only applies to the semantic of the message.

    Why? What more is there?

But the trust on the content of the message depends on how true is the source for the receiver, and also depend on the consistency of this information with previous informations it may have.

Good point. All of these are variables in some way.. degree and level of trust, consistency, meaningfulness. Defining metrics on the manifolds of these features is important.


In each case the information of the message can be different.

    How different. Are there spectra? Modality? etc. ?

What happens if the receptor receive a message with a program to decode further valuable information?

We can iterate this to various depths, no? The message could be like a multifractal with differing patterns at differing scales.

If the receptor has anticipatory reactions, It depends on if the receiver knows in advance the utility of the program or not. But at the end these important messages will be decoded anyway isn't? so both paths reach identical entropy but the information received by the message is different, according with my definition. That may sound paradoxical, but to apply the decoder to the critic messages, the robot need to receive the message "the last decoder is for these next messages" or any other message that includes this as a consequence, either before or after receiving the decoder. That reduces the second case to the first. So the amount of information received may be the same after all. and both processes are identical with different ordering of the same or similar messages.

    GOOD! Elaborate on this please.


There is another possibility: that the robot alone may discover this information by trial and error, variation and selection , conjectures and refutations or any other darwinian processes.

There are some other interesting cases: lies,  wrong information etc.

To summarize, the information depends on the message content and the state of the receiver.

    And the state of the environment in which the ATM finds itself.


I remark also that any turing machine (or a computer) either it dissapear or it is by definition part of an autonomous system or an extension of it. For example my laptop is an extension of myself. I maintain its entropy by recharging its batteries and cleaning it. he gives information to me.

    We agree 100%.



2013/3/8 Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net <mailto:stephe...@charter.net>>

    On 3/8/2013 7:41 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
    That may be not enough. suppose that you are starving, and you
    receive in your phone a message describing where is the next
    source of water but somehow the description is interspersed in
    the description of  the complete equation of the M Theory that
    someone has found. You of course take the last as noise, despite
    that you know what is it. and  you know that this message will be
    lost (leĀ“ts suppose that).  What is the information and how can
    it be measured?.

    Hi Alberto,

        If the message is a program that tells a class of autonomously
    mobile Turing Machines how to move from a given position to the
    energy supply... There could be any set of secondary messages 'in
    the code' at some level if the string is complex enough... who
    knows that AMTM they might control...


    Usually the study of information and the measure of it make many
    assumptions that made it incomplete.  My idea is that it is not
    only the decoding, but the decrease in entropy that the receiver
    experiment.

        Such as the above example?


     That include the decoding + the course of actions that the
    receiver takes with this information. I the case of the starving
    person, first it experiment a reduction in stress that reduces
    the muscular activity and the heat produces, instead it follow a
    ordered set of actions until he find the food, the food will
    repair the structuresof the body etc.

        Given n number of possible strings and m possible TMs... the
    mind boggles! We are machines, very sophisticated, but machines
    nonetheless and doubly so!






    2013/3/8 Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net
    <mailto:stephe...@charter.net>>

        Hi,

            What is the difference between a random sequence of bits
        and a meaningful message? The correct decryption scheme.

        --






--
Onward!

Stephen

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