On 08 Mar 2013, at 13:58, Stephen P. King wrote (to Alberto Corona):

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We are machines, very sophisticated, but machines nonetheless anddoubly so!

`I don't think we know that. This can only be an hypothesis, or a`

`consequence of an hypothesis. The same is true for the proposition "we`

`are not machine".`

Stephen P. King wrote (to me):

But neither Bp nor Bp & p are ontological. Only p is is.Could you make a mental note to elaborate on how p is ontological?

`I have fixed the base ontology with N = {0, s(0), s(s(0)), ...}, with`

`the usual successor, + and * axioms/laws.`

`p is used for an arbitrary arithmetical proposition, at that base`

`level, with its usual standard interpretation. It is ontological as`

`opposed to epistemological proposition, which in this setting means`

`"believed by some machine", and which I denote by Bp. Of course, and`

`that is what comp makes possible, Bp is also a purely arithmetical`

`proposition (beweisbar("p")), but they are epistemological because`

`they involve a machine, and a proposition coded in the machine language.`

`When I write p, I allude to the arithmetical truth, which describes`

`the ontology chosen (the numbers, and the arithmetical proposition`

`with their usual standard interpretation). Then some arithmetical`

`proposition are singled out as epistemological because they describe:`

- the "thinking" of some machine, like Bp, or

`- the knowledge of some machine, like Bp & p, or the observation of`

`some machine like Bp & Dt, or`

- the feeling of some machine like Bp & Dt & p.

`See my papers for the precise morphisms, and the derivation of the`

`corresponding logics and mathematics. Or ask further question. I don't`

`want to be long.`

That's why I have done UDA, for all good willing humans, from age 7to 77, and AUDA, for all digital machines and humans knowing how adigital machine work. Of course, the digital machine knew already,in some (platonic) sense.You seem sometimes to forget that the children also havequestions for you to answer...

???

`Why do you ever make statements like that. Nothing is more wrong. I`

`have no clue why you make such ad hominem and completely absurd comment.`

`I love answer all genuine question, from 7 to 77, I just precisely`

`said. This include children.`

Human can choose by themselves. Human are relative universal numberby comp, even without step 8. Only a non-comp believer should beastonished.OK. "Human are relative universal number by comp..." Could youadd more detail to this answer? What is the 'relative' word mean?Relative to what?

Either (according to the context):

`-relative to the base theory (the starting universal system that we`

`assume. I have chosen arithmetic (after an attempt of chosing the`

`combinators, but people are less familiar with them), or`

`-relative to a universal number, which is universal relatively to the`

`base theory, or`

`-relative to a universal number, which is relative to a universal`

`number, which is relative to the base theory, etc.`

You attribute to me the idea that chalkboard don't exist. Did Iever said that?UDA Step 8.

`Many others have already told you this many times. UDA step 8`

`concludes that chalkboard does not exist in a primary sense. Not that`

`chalkboard does not exist in the observable sense. That would`

`instantaneously refutes comp. The conclusion is that physics is not`

`the fundamental science, and that it is reduced to arithmetic. Not`

`that physics is non sense. OIn the contrary, with comp we see how a`

`physical reality, even a quantum one, is unavoidable for almost all`

`universal numbers.`

Yes, we know that classical determinism is wrong, but it is notlogically inconsistent with consciousness.I must disagree. It is baked into the topology of classicalmechanics that a system cannot semantically act upon itself.? (that seems to contradict comp, and be rather 1004)You do not seem consider the need to error correct and adapt tochanging local conditions for a conscious machine nor the need tomaintain access to low entropy resources. Your machines are neverhungry.

`Take the Heisenberg matrix of the Milky way at the level of strings,`

`with 10^1000 decimals. Its evolution is emulated by infinitely many`

`arithmetical relation, and in all of them a lot of machines are`

`hungry, and many lack resources, and other do not. Now, such`

`computation might not have the right first person indeterminacy`

`measure, but in this case comp is false, and if someone show that he`

`will refute comp. But in all case, arithmetic handle all relative`

`resources. So you it seems that you are not correct here.`

Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.