On Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:54:35 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 7:38 AM, Craig Weinberg 
> <whats...@gmail.com<javascript:>> 
> wrote: 
> >> "Control" can be defined less controversially than "free will". I 
> >> control something if I can determine its behaviour according to my 
> >> wishes. 
> > 
> > 
> > What do you see as being the difference between free will and the 
> ability to 
> > determine the behavior of something according to your wishes? 
> You insist that "free will" is incompatible with determinism or 
> randomness. If I accept this definition, then free will is impossible. 
> "Control" can be defined in such a way that it is possible even if 
> free will is impossible. 

I don't think that control can be defined in such a way that it is possible 
without free will. Not literally. We can project control onto an inanimate 
system figuratively, via the pathetic fallacy, and say that rainfall 
controls crop yields or something like that, but there is no intention on 
the part of rainfall to manipulate crop yields. While it may not always be 
easy to discern what exactly makes a given process unintentional or 
intentional when it is a public observation, but privately the difference 
between what we can possibly control and what we may not ever be able to 
control is abundantly clear.

> However, if you define control as 
> incompatible with determinism or randomness then control is impossible 

I would not say that free will/self-control>control is incompatible from 
unintentional processes (determinism or randomness), but just as the yellow 
traffic light implies the customs and meanings of both red and green 
lights, there is a clear distinction between intention and unintention.

> also. We will have to use an alternative word to indicate what was 
> previously called control in order to avoid confusion in our 
> discussions. 

Why, getting too close to something that you can't deny and conflate?


> -- 
> Stathis Papaioannou 

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