On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> You insist that "free will" is incompatible with determinism or
>> randomness. If I accept this definition, then free will is impossible.
>> "Control" can be defined in such a way that it is possible even if
>> free will is impossible.
>
>
> I don't think that control can be defined in such a way that it is possible
> without free will. Not literally. We can project control onto an inanimate
> system figuratively, via the pathetic fallacy, and say that rainfall
> controls crop yields or something like that, but there is no intention on
> the part of rainfall to manipulate crop yields. While it may not always be
> easy to discern what exactly makes a given process unintentional or
> intentional when it is a public observation, but privately the difference
> between what we can possibly control and what we may not ever be able to
> control is abundantly clear.

As I said, a common definition of "control" is the ability to
determine something's behaviour according to your wishes. That you
have wishes is independent of whether you have free will, whatever the
definition of free will.

>> However, if you define control as
>> incompatible with determinism or randomness then control is impossible
>
>
> I would not say that free will/self-control>control is incompatible from
> unintentional processes (determinism or randomness), but just as the yellow
> traffic light implies the customs and meanings of both red and green lights,
> there is a clear distinction between intention and unintention.
>
>>
>> also. We will have to use an alternative word to indicate what was
>> previously called control in order to avoid confusion in our
>> discussions.
>
>
> Why, getting too close to something that you can't deny and conflate?

I know exactly what I mean by "free will" and "control" but if you
define them differently then I'll happily agree that these things are
impossible according to your definition. We are disagreeing about
language in this case, not about facts. We disagree about facts in
other cases, such as whether judges believe that the brain of the
accused works according to deterministic or random processes.


-- 
Stathis Papaioannou

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