On 3/24/2013 10:27 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:



On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 12:25 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net <mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:

    On 3/23/2013 2:49 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:

        Since you don't believe in anything (which you believe... ;) ),


    There's a difference between believing specific propositions and believing 
*in*
    something.


Which would be?

If I believed *in* science then I'd believe whatever science said. I believe many particular things that science says, but only to the extent that if I have to act on them I reason from their truth instead of the contrary.


        it is redundant to point out that there are more trustworthy ayahuasca 
cooks,
        indeed traveling snake-oil-salesmen (although institutionalizing 
ayahuasca use
        is showing its share of problems), than pharma + ethics boards + govt. 
+ medical
        industry interests blended into this scheme of making medicine more and 
more
        expensive for the needing, appropriate patients.


    Sure, and I trust my neighbor more than I do the police; but who should I 
call if I
    have a burglar?


In good faith you call the institutionalized web of burglars, who will in 99% of cases file it + simply not care, /unless/ something/someone concerning the incident can be politicized.

That's about as useful as most of your advice.


        This is pseudo-science and apparently all these interests are working 
together
        with a telepathically linked united, benevolent interest to better and 
help the
        sick and needy.


    It's not psuedo-science and it's not science - it's commerce.


I beg to differ: it is institutionalized burglary, with a lot of good people caught up in the web beyond their control making bread and beyond, granted.

Concrete example from pharma these past few years concerning everybody who buys medication for common cold or flu: Phenylephrine is marketed in the US and various parts of the world as a nasal decongestant, to avoid meth labs getting their hands on unlimited amounts of Pseudoephedrine as precursor.

Problem? Phenylephrine doesn't work. Billions of people buying something that does not perform better than placebo in clinical trials. Without any efficacy upon yours truly either. Sales are fine, apparently. Snake-oil-salesman's burglary comes to light every time a scandal in this area arises.

Do you propose that the FDA warrant efficacy? They used to try to do that, but libertarians wanted big pharma to be free to sell them placebos.


This isn't commerce. It's burglary, sanctioned by science, state, commerce etc. Believing this is straight commerce/fair trade between agents in view of available data is a bet that I give the same odds as betting on morphogenetic fields.

You seem informed about the products. Do you have access to data that's not publicly available?


Nonetheless indeed, who should we call? The risk-averse idiocy result of all these interests combined: companies, federal regulatory and ethics boards, the medical industry etc. "compromises itself" into something that doesn't work to steal cash from a person with cold/flu. Not commerce and not science in my book.

Well, fraud is a civil as well as criminal cause for action.  Sue them.


Existence and efficacy of well-prepared ayahuasca is not debatable to anybody 
who has tried

Efficacy for what?

+ if you need more stronger existential proof then Dimethyltryptamine is Schedule 1 in the US and equivalent in most countries, even though we all have some in our metabolism. Strictly speaking: everybody in every airport and border should be arrested.

But they are not.  Is that existential proof it's not banned?


Religious exemptions if written into law are not implemented, as the reports of priests/adherents of concerned South American churches + religions being arrested continue to appear.

Of course some U.S. judges ruling doesn't control in South America.

All this in the face of science indicating comparative safety of Dimethyltryptamine over alcohol and tobacco.

What science is that?

Brent


PGC



    Brent

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